Creating views with a chainsaw

[Hillwalker]

AT Corridor

That would make sense. They were pretty straight. There were also boundary "trails," marked with yellow blazes, parallel and perpendicular to the AT ascending Spaulding and along the side trail to Sugarloaf from the AT.



Yes, NW seems like the right direction. That's the one. And I agree (with Dave) they did a sub-par (ugly) job on cutting all them.

What you saw was the AT Corridor boundary survey line. Not intended to be a trail. If you look closely you will find a buried aluminum AT boundary marker approximately every 500 feet or so. We keep this boundary brushed and painted on a regular basis. When the corridor was purchased and surveyed the expenditure was quite substantial, Letting the boundary melt back into the woods would technically be a loss of public resource. The corridor is owned by the National Park Service and overseen by the US Forest Service. It is ugly, but not intended to be a hiking trail. By the way, AT Corridor Monitoring is a volunteer activity just as is AT Trail Maintenance.

 

[Bob]

Lots of moose scat in the Sawtooths. I found a huge pile in the back of my car

??? How did it get in your car?

 

[cbcbd]

??? How did it get in your car?

What, you didn't know? Moose are considered to be one of the best lock-pickers of the animal kingdom.

 

[Neil]

??? How did it get in your car?

The moose used a coat hanger to unlock it, went in, did his business and got out of there before I got back. I swear I heard him snickering in the woods nearby. I think he was listening to my CD player too because there was a new CD in it. Ever heard of "The Ruminators"? He must have looked pretty funny sitting behind the wheel shaking his antlers to the music.

Re: wildlife of the ungulate variety in the ADK's. On bushwhack hikes of the lesser peaks we see so much deer scat it's unbelievable. Fair bit of bear scat too (but they aren't ungulates). I think we never see wildlife because we make too much noise. Except for on the AMR road like Inge says except I think they are less fearful because there is no hunting allowed on AMR land.

 

[beverly]

Mouse v Moose

I've seen a dying moose on the side of the Northway near Lake George. I've seen moose poop on the Taconic Crest Trail on the NY/MA border. I have seen mouse poop in my kitchen - but no live mouse - only the dead ones that dined on cheese and peanut butter before meeting the mousetrap. Neil - maybe it was a mouse and not a moose. Moose are a bit larger.

 

[RoySwkr]

"What do I want? Do I want wilderness, or do I want a playground which has the illusion of wilderness?"

I'm sure there are some people (including city types who will never go there but want there to be wilderness) who want wilderness.

I'm sure there are plenty of hikers like myself who would prefer #2, but we don't get it because one element of true wilderness is the absence of human-made rules and most so-called wilderness comes with more rules than non-wilderness.

Btw, I saw a large cow moose in the Adk on the S ridge of Hoffman, it was traversing the bump ahead of me and I got a good look at it. Usually the woods are too thick for good off-trail moose observation.

 

[NewHampshire]

Was reading Christopher Johnson's Book "This Grand and Magnificent place" today and read something very interesting. Apparently it was common practice back in the early years of the AMC for its members to cut trees for viewing panoramas on summits that did not have them naturally.

Does not really add much to this debate, but thought it was a neat and relevant tid bit.

Brian

 

[Neil]

I've seen a dying moose on the side of the Northway near Lake George. I've seen moose poop on the Taconic Crest Trail on the NY/MA border. I have seen mouse poop in my kitchen - but no live mouse - only the dead ones that dined on cheese and peanut butter before meeting the mousetrap. Neil - maybe it was a mouse and not a moose. Moose are a bit larger.

I think THIS post proves that I can tell a moose from a mouse. Besides, do mice have opposable hooves?

 

[Quietman]

Kind of made me stop and think.

This thread = 127 posts and 4,414 views(pun intended )

Thread on the removal of entire mountain tops for coal and severe polution of low lands = 3 posts and 225 views.

Is it that one issue seems easy to address, and the other way too much to comprehend?

 

[Neil]

Kind of made me stop and think.

This thread = 127 posts and 4,414 views(pun intended )

Thread on the removal of entire mountain tops for coal and severe polution of low lands = 3 posts and 225 views.

Is it that one issue seems easy to address, and the other way too much to comprehend?

You raise an excellent point. For every observed phenomenon there has to be an explanation and here's mine:

The cutting of views with chainsaws question touches the members of this site and our personal beliefs as they pertain to hiking more directly. It also raised a question that was closer to home.

If the mountain top coal removal was happening on an ADK or NH 4000 footer there would have been a few (hundred) more posts.

 

[DougPaul]

The cutting of views with chainsaws question touches the members of this site and our personal beliefs as they pertain to hiking more directly. It also raised a question that was closer to home.

Agreed, personal philosophies, personal enjoyment, local regs, local minor environmental damage, etc. On a global scale, pretty minor.

If the mountain top coal removal was happening on an ADK or NH 4000 footer there would have been a few (hundred) more posts.

Local jobs, local environmental degradation, national energy supply, global energy supply, global energy supply, contribution to global warming, etc. On a global scale, a bit bigger.

But look at the thread on global warning: possible issues of habitbility of the planet (for many species, including humans), possible disruption of societies, possible disruption of the human food chain, possible economic disruption, current politcal contention, etc. Seems to be right up there with creating views...

Doug

 

[Tim Seaver]

Thread on the removal of entire mountain tops for coal and severe polution of low lands = 3 posts and 225 views.

Is it that one issue seems easy to address, and the other way too much to comprehend?

Mountain top mining is very difficult to discuss in depth without wading into politics - I suspect that is a factor as well.

 

[Quietman]

Can we all agree that whether or not we think that creating/maintaining views is OK, individual hikers(or groups) shouldn't take matters into their own hands and remove trees? I was unaware that this sometimes takes place in the ADK's.

 

[Grumpy]

... one element of true wilderness is the absence of human-made rules and most so-called wilderness comes with more rules than non-wilderness. ...

That is one of the more provocative (thought-provoking) and astute observations I've read in the various discussions about wilderness and hiking.

G.

 

[WhiteMTHike]

Can we all agree that whether or not we think that creating/maintaining views is OK, individual hikers(or groups) shouldn't take matters into their own hands and remove trees? I was unaware that this sometimes takes place in the ADK's.

Well said.

 

[Tom Rankin]

Can we all agree that whether or not we think that creating/maintaining views is OK, individual hikers(or groups) shouldn't take matters into their own hands and remove trees? I was unaware that this sometimes takes place in the ADK's.

I wouldn't be surprised if it happened everywhere!

It certainly happens in the Catskills too, and from what I've read, other places around the NE.

 

[BlackSpruce]

«Originally Posted by RoySwkr
... one element of true wilderness is the absence of human-made rules and most so-called wilderness comes with more rules than non-wilderness. ... »

Absolutely!

«Originally Posted by Quietman
Can we all agree that whether or not we think that creating/maintaining views is OK, individual hikers(or groups) shouldn't take matters into their own hands and remove trees? »

Yes we can!

Christine

 

[bill bowden]

Changing views on NH summits

From 20 years ago, here are some changes I've observed:

Mount Tom moved from viewless to impressive (when?)
Hale used to have pretty good views,now being blocked
Nancy has a cut viewspot (when did it appear?)
Starr King has lost its views
North Tripyramid used to have a decent view, now lost (corrections?)
How long has Osceola had good views?
Is the view from Sandwich natural or enhanced?
How about North Twin?
Did Jackson once have a treed summit, how about Clinton? Garfield?

there are a huge number of summits with views now from old forest fires, cardigan, firescrew, parker, resolution,crawford etc.

I don't have strong position to advocate one way or another but we should recognize that the White Mountains.forests as we know them have been strongly impacted by past human activity and that changes will continue to be observed and created as wind and weather as well as human activity continue.

 

[Neil]

one element of true wilderness is the absence of human-made rules and most so-called wilderness comes with more rules than non-wilderness.

Very true. Allthough I'll take the so-called wilderness (and all the rules) found in the ADK's over no wilderness at all.

(Maintaining these lands in a "sort of" wild state has to require rules when something like 60,000,000 people live within a 6 hour drive from them.)

 

[BrentD22]

What's the difference between a view and a trail, or a cairn, or a hut? They're all man-made features that "enhance" a hiking experience. Why is cutting a tree for a view any worse than cutting a tree for a trail, or to build a hut or a leanto. I think I actually consider huts to be less worthy than views.

I couldn't agree more. I'm glad someone cut the trail I hike on, I'm glad someone built the leanto I'm sleeping in, or even re-biult Jim Liberty Cabin. If they didn't cut the trails or camp-sites we couldn't go hiking. We go hiking for many reasons and one is the views. To prove this piont of views being a top reason for hiking try to amagine a hike through a dark tunnel uphill. Would it be interesting? No of course not.

We cut down trees for a lot of other more wasteful ways. Why not cut down a couple of trees to improve the view from a peak or other? Because we shouldn't cut down trees? Well maybe we shouldn't have cut the trail. I surely don't believe that.