Cutting Christmas Trees in the WMNF

[erugs]

Last Saturday, we were just starting off at the trailhead for Welch-Dickey when we noticed a verbal altercation taking place. Two people were walking back to their vehicle with a "charlie brown" tree they had just cut and a man with loppers in hand who was just exiting the approach from the left (and oposite direction than they). He began a discussion about trees being cut, they responded by saying they were following guidelines. He said something about doubting that the WMNF would allow such actions, and on it went. And so did we.

This morning I took a look at the WMNF web site and found the following: http://www.fs.fed.us/r9/forests/white_mountain/news/2011/newsrel_20111118_Christmas_tree.pdf

I don't know whether the two people we saw had permit or not, but I was surprised that someone who looked the part of a trail maintainer would not know about the allowances for people cutting trees, or perhaps more importantly, a better way to approach people and maybe even educate them.

As hikers in the WMNF, do you know the rules? What would you have done?

 

[Hillwalker]

Permit?

Having done this over the years, I would have shown him the little plastic strip tag that the FS gave me after I paid my fee. It would be attached to the base of the tree as specified. If they didn't have the tag, then I would guess that they had not actually purchased the permit. Maybe that's what "Lopper man" was upset about.

 

[una_dogger]

http://greatkids.outdoors.org/2011/11/winter-planning-for-next-years-family.html?m=1

I actually just read about Xmas tree permits this morning on the AMC site and thought it was something i would like to do

My humble .02 is this gets people out appreciating the forest and people who have an appreciation for the outdoors often keep wilderness preservation near the top of thier list of core values when they vote

Maybe I was daydreaming during maintainer training because I don't remember them covering enforcement as part of a maintainer's role

I personally would turn a blind eye if i saw a
Family carrying a Christmas tree out of the woods.

 

[Puma concolor]

Speaking in general terms, I have found that many of the most heated disputes take place between two people who have no idea what they're talking about. Seems like that might have been the case here.

 

[Becca M]

Heck, near Plymouth on a Sunday morning I recently saw a man and a couple of kids walking down a pretty busy road carrying BOTH a Christmas tree and a chainsaw....

I mean, you cannot have everybody nitpicking everything all the time... there are more than enough trees in this state for anyone who wants one!!!!

 

[Stan]

As hikers in the WMNF, do you know the rules? What would you have done?

I would have confiscated it for the tailgate ... and then returned it to the axman ... cheers to the axman ... jeers to the taxman.

It's been a while since I cut a tree in the wild but let me see, last time I forgot my saw and had to go back for it ... oh well, it was a nice bushwhack.

Then there's the cost. Tree fee, parking fee, gas, breakfast, dinner, saw sharpening, cleaning the needles out of the car and my teeth, special laundering to get rid of the sap stains, antiseptic ointment and bandaids, speeding ticket, tolls ...

That's it for a holiday tree! Get a Christmas Tree instead and feel the love!

 

[MichaelJ]

New York state says "Christmas trees have not been found to be a method of transport for these invasive pests and are not considered a risk for the spread of these destructive species." They offer no citation for this information.

Can anyone offer any further discussion or insight as to why transport of firewood is prohibited, but nobody regulates Christmas trees being carried hundreds of miles away?

 

[Jay H]

well, then there's the whole concept of how Frosty came back to life after being locked into the hot stiffling greenhouse too. It just defies all the known properties of thermodynamics and the natural world.



Jay

 

[cooperhill]

Maybe I was daydreaming during maintainer training because I don't remember them covering enforcement as part of a maintainer's role

I'm with una.

My responsibilities as a trail maintainer are clearly defined. A christmas tree or rules regarding this are not listed. Even if the issue was trail related, I try and educate as opposed to chastise or somehow play the role of a law enforcement ranger.

 

[Little Rickie]

Any estimate on how many trees get cut down like this?

 

[una_dogger]

Any estimate on how many trees get cut down like this?

My guess would be a small number of easily accessible young pines that have recruited into clear cut areas alongside the forest roads. Just a hunch.

 

[Hampshire]

We have cut our Christmas tree from the WMNF (with permit) for the last 9 years. Can't imagine doing it any other way. We look for trees throughout our hiking trips and have carried a tree more than a mile from the trailhead. As una dogger mentioned, these are somewhat Charlie Brownish but the memories are larger than the tree they put up in Rockefeller Center.

 

[Little Rickie]

Looks like a big problem. How much revenue is lost to the state because people don't pay for a permit? Could help balance the SAR budget.

 

[MichaelJ]

How much revenue is lost to the state because people don't pay for a permit?

None. It's a USFS permit.

 

[peakbagger]

Prime spots for getting trees are designated wildlife openings all around the WMNF. These areas are typically burned on a rotation to keep them clear. Balsam firs are frequently quick to restablish themselves after a controlled burn and they tend to have some space between each tree so there is a better chance of getting a full tree. Like many other products these days, its hard for the "wild" products to compete with pruned cultivated trees but generally a wild tree groing in a field has a better chance as the wildlife will sometime do natural pruning.

There used to be great spot up behind Camp Dodge but I believe the FS has stopped managing it. There is one off of Dolly Copp road that I have seen on Google earth but have spent the time to locate in the field.

 

[freighttrain48]

If we all got together and decided to get our Christmas Trees from the top of Owlshead then maybe it would have a view, Then next year we would pick Galehead, then East Oceola and so on. Think about no more viewless 4000 footers

 

[Jay H]

I plan on having christmas in the WMNF, plan on bringing my decorations and presents and staking out a tree. Some battery operated LED strings and and little blanket and I'll have my perfect little spruce trap once we get 5' of snow on the ground.

Jay

 

[Stan]

Can anyone offer any further discussion or insight as to why transport of firewood is prohibited, but nobody regulates Christmas trees being carried hundreds of miles away?

The worst infestations seem to be on hardwoods, which make the best firewood. The only infestations threatening evergreens that I know of is the wooly adelgid on hemlocks and 1) that is not the best choice for a Christmas tree, and 2) since it will be exported from New Hampshire it wouldn't effect New Hampshire (I don't think it has gone that far north yet so states to the south would be more interested in it coming up from the south).

If it is not a problem, why regulate it?

 

[DSettahr]

Can anyone offer any further discussion or insight as to why transport of firewood is prohibited, but nobody regulates Christmas trees being carried hundreds of miles away?

I think it has mainly to do with the fact that most of the quarantines for invasive species center around urban areas (NYC for example) since that's where the species showed up first (typically they arrive in cities with large ports where a lot of commerce gets brought by ship).

Quarantines work for timber products, because the timber companies actually follow the quarantines. Quarantines don't work for firewood, however, because the average Joe Schmoe either willfully or ignorantly ignores the quarantine. This is why you've seen so much expanded legislation targeting any moving firewood (as opposed to timber) within the past few years- because it is firewood, and not timber, that these species are using to get out of the quarantine zones.

I would think that Christmas trees are less of an issue for several reasons. First off, they typically are brought into the urban areas, not out of them. Secondly, Christmas trees probably tend to travel less distance than firewood. Thirdly, Christmas trees are usually kept inside once they reach those urban areas, away from potentially contamination from invasive species. Fourthly, any tree that is infested by an invasive species is likely going to be in obvious decline in terms of health and vigor, and therefore is unlikely to be sold as a Christmas tree.

There is another invasive species in the northeast that does affect conifers- the syrex woodwasp, which affects pines. While pines are a very common Christmas tree in the south, up here in the north we tend to favor firs and spruces instead (don't really have firs and spruces in the south, plus pine grows faster, giving Christmas tree farm owners a quicker return on their investment).

I don't think it has gone that far north yet so states to the south would be more interested in it coming up from the south

I'm fairly certain the hemlock wooly adelgid has been found in the vicinity of Albany, NY. I'm sure if it's not already in New Hampshire, it's close to it.

Edit: Yep, it's in New Hampshire: http://na.fs.fed.us/fhp/hwa/infestations/hwa_infestations10.pdf

 

[RoySwkr]

As hikers in the WMNF, do you know the rules? What would you have done?

I know that you need a permit and have to pay a fee. I would have done nothing unless I had seen him cut an ornamental planting near the road, then I would have got his license plate and called the FS.

If we all got together and decided to get our Christmas Trees from the top of Owlshead then maybe it would have a view,

Alas, Xmas tree cutting is not allowed in Wilderness but you can cut dead and down wood for a campfire and then decide you don't want one.

After the big windstorm in Waterville Valley in a previous century I got a free Xmas tree. A large tree had blown down across the trail, and when I cut it I noticed that the top was just the right size