damaging a down bag ??

[spider solo]

I did a quick search as I thought the subject came up before but I couldn't find it.
Though I have other down bags I recently got a high loft -40 bag (Mountain Hardwear).
The big temptation is to stuff it into a compresion sack and squish it into the smallest size possible.
...but this little voice in the back of my mind is thinking that I might damage the down or blow out the baffles that hold it in place.

....I know, I know, I could just go to a doctor and get rid of the little voice...

So what is the general concession ..is it bad for the bag ?
(this bag uses welded seams as opposed to stiched seams as part of it''s water resistance)

 

[Chip]

I definately store mine in the big mesh "laundry" bags. I don't think stuffing it down in a small sack will hurt it. I don't use compression sacks, I haven't found them that more efficient than simple stuffing. I think blowing out the baffles would require rapid compression as the air escapes, which is more likely to occur in the initial full bag stuff-down than in the final compression.

 

[DougPaul]

I'll admit that I don't feel too comfortable with compression stuff sacks either, but think about the part of the bag under you. Your weight compresses the down far more than any compression stuff sack.

Just don't store the bag in the stuff sack--dry it out and store it in a large storage sack. (I suspect that you already know this, but I am putting it here just to be complete.)

On the other hand, I was talking to a saleswoman at REI and she said that they just dry and store the bag in the stuff sack (not enough room for big storage bags). But I suspect that they retire the bags after a few years at most--several of my bags are still in fine shape after 20-30yrs.

Doug

 

[skiguy]

If it's a high quality down bag which it sounds like it is I would'nt stress out to much.There will always be a degradation of the down fibers over time but the better the down fill the less of a degradation. Man has been trying to reinvent down fibers for years and has come pretty close but not exactly. It's stronger than alot of people realize.
I would be more concerned what I do with the Bag when NOT in use. Always use a storage sack, one that does not constrict the bag at all, when not out on the trail.Also air it out well after use and follow the manufacturer's cleaning instructions.

Check out THIS it might help with that little voice.

 

[dug]

Transporting for a trip shouldn't be a problem. I store them using the methods outlines above. Yes, keeping it fully lofted all the time would be great, but would be logistically challenging as you hiked up the trail with it.

 

[Stan]

Compressibility is a big benefit of down, otherwise it wouldn't be worth the risk of getting it wet. I wouldn't worry about it, just be sure to store it dry and loose ... loose as a goose? ... well, maybe it just goes to show the resilience of nature.

 

[Chip]

... loose as a goose? ...

HA ! I think that refers to a different fowl (foul ?) bi-product...

 

[jfb]

So what is the general concession ..is it bad for the bag ?

I've never seen any evidence that compressing a down bag as much as possible would damage the bag. On the other hand, I use a compression stuff sack for my winter bag and don't even compress it as much as I would if I were to use the original stuff sack that came with the bag. I find it much easier to stuff the bag into a larger diameter stuff sack and then pull down on the straps until it fits easily into the sleeping bag compartment of my pack.

 

[skiguy]

I've never seen any evidence that compressing a down bag as much as possible would damage the bag. On the other hand, I use a compression stuff sack for my winter bag and don't even compress it as much as I would if I were to use the original stuff sack that came with the bag. I find it much easier to stuff the bag into a larger diameter stuff sack and then pull down on the straps until it fits easily into the sleeping bag compartment of my pack.

I would agree jfb.

I don't know if they are still made but I have a Lowe Telecompressor sack that I have used for years. It compresses from the ends (vertically) rather than squeezing the bag horizontally. Much easier to customize the shape of your stuff for the fit in your pack.

Just found a LINK

 

[DougPaul]

It compresses from the ends (vertically) rather than squeezing the bag horizontally. Much easier to customize the shape of your stuff for the fit in your pack.

REI's Kilo series down bags come with an end-wise compression stuff sack.

I have also seen compression stuff sacks that are rather heavy--3 or more oz. A plain stuff sack would be much lighter--and if you line it with a plastic bag, the nylon sleeping bag slides in rather easily and is thus easy to stuff.

I initially used the plastic bag for the obvious purpose of waterproofing the stuff sack and found the ease of stuffing to be a nice secondary benefit.

Doug

 

[sli74]

I use a compression sack while on backpacking trips. I have WM down bags and have never had a problem. I store the bags on the back of my bedroom door, hung up so they are not compressed. The small amount of compression seen by a bag during trips is minimal. I carried my WM Highlite bag on the LOng TRail last summer/fall, it was compressed in a compression sack except at night when in use and this went on day after day for over a month and then again for another 3 weeks on a separate trip and hasn't lost ANY of its loft and temp rating. I wouldn't store a bag compressed for long periods of time but even that isn't as much of a factor with down bags as with synthetics.

sli74

 

[John S]

Spider, if welded construction presents any unique risks of pulling, stretching or overall stress on the seams I think it would come more from the very act of stuffing it into either type of sack than from the final bit of squashing in a compression sack. Stuffing can be a challenge, however - waterproof materials ‘exhale’ a little slower while high quality down wants to keep expanding. I find that the more I deflate before I stuff, the easier it goes.

FWIW, I use a compression sack for a MH Big Bang - same material but only 600 down - and it puffs up reasonably well. I’d expect yours to do even better.

 

[spaddock]

I store the bags on the back of my bedroom door, hung up so they are not compressed.

I got this from the MEC website:

Do not store a bag or jacket in a stuff sack. The fibres or down plumules will compress. Never store a wet article in either a storage sack or stuff sack. It is best to store a sleeping bag in a clean, ventilated area, but not draped over a hanger or rod. It will be happiest if loosely stuffed in a large cloth or mesh bag so it will retain its loft.

-Shayne

 

[spider solo]

Thanks for the different links and ideas. I do keep them stored in large breatheable laundry bags when not in use. Of course I can't get into a couple of the closets at home..Sleeping pads.. unrolled.. stored under the bed.. etc.
It is the MH -40 Ghost that I bought. It will replace a -20 bag, of another style and brand, that has long ago seen it's cold weather ratings..if ever.
I got to wondering about the compression sacks as I was surprised at the large size of the stuff sack that came with it.(it also came with a storage bag)
I see the WM bags are favorites as well.
I went for this particular bag as I want to leave the tent behind and just travell with the bag. They make much of it's water resistence so I hope to leave the dry bag and bivy bag behind as well.That should trim considerable weight.
Acting much like a ballon when I stuff it into it's sack I keep the opening facing up so the air can escape. Though with draft collars and hood it does billow out a fair amount.
The vertical compression bags seem like they would do the trick. I would never have known there were different styles of compression sack...so I might give that a try
Interesting about not hanging bags up for storage. Seems we are wanted to be taking better care of our gear than ourselfs half the time...

Slept out on the snow the other night with a pad underneath, in the morning the snow was melted under where I slept..think that was my body heat melting the snow through the pad? I ask as I was curious.. if we were to have a dry snow while sleeping in the bag would it melt as it covers the bag ?
I would tend to think it would not...with the cold air keeping the snow dry and it would just brush off as it would any thing else.
Thought I would have a chance to check it out but no snow the other night (Monday) not here anyways...
thanks

...A little edit update.... I checked on the care and feeding" of the bag and it mentioned having loops near the foot to hang the bag..so it must vary from one brand to the next if it is ok or not.

 

[deadpoint]

i store my mountain hardware king tut in the mesh bag it came with and i use a compression sack when i'm in the mountains. i've have the bag for 3+ years and it hasn't lost any loft. when i was on denali this past may it was compressed for days on end and it popped right back, you have nothing to worry about.

i'd recommend getting yourself a bivy sack if you're forgoing the tent. the bags might be water resistant but if you get dumped on the snow will eventually get thru and then your screwed.

 

[jime]

I see the WM bags are favorites as well.
I went for this particular bag as I want to leave the tent behind and just travell with the bag. They make much of it's water resistence so I hope to leave the dry bag and bivy bag behind as well.That should trim considerable weight.
Acting much like a ballon when I stuff it into it's sack I keep the opening facing up so the air can escape. Though with draft collars and hood it does billow out a fair amount.

Try stuffing the bag inside out. A waterproof bag can be very much like a big balloon and I believe this is the recommendation.

 

[DougPaul]

It is the MH -40 Ghost that I bought. It will replace a -20 bag, of another style and brand, that has long ago seen it's cold weather ratings..if ever.

A bit of margin in the sleeping bag doesn't weigh much, but allows for some degradation in the field.

Slept out on the snow the other night with a pad underneath, in the morning the snow was melted under where I slept..think that was my body heat melting the snow through the pad? I ask as I was curious.. if we were to have a dry snow while sleeping in the bag would it melt as it covers the bag ?
I would tend to think it would not...with the cold air keeping the snow dry and it would just brush off as it would any thing else.

The ground may not be frozen yet at this time of year. Heat to melt the snow certainly comes from you, but some additional heat might have come from below. (Geothermal heat also comes from earth's core. I forget the exact amount, but IIRC, it is enough to melt about 1cm of ice per year.)

If you sleep in one place for several nights, you will leave a hard depression from the heat and pressure.

As for sleeping without a tent, I would use a bivy sack. I woke up to 1/4in of ice covering my tent one morning (freezing rain). Better on a bivy sack than on your bag. It would be nice to have some sort of shelter for your head to keep the precip out of your face. It would still be "fun" in a heavy snow.

The surface of a sleeping bag is slightly warmer than the air and thus could melt snow. I suspect that the usual concepts of dry cold vs wet cold apply.

You might also want to look into simple snow shelters, eg trench shelters.

Doug