Danger, danger!!!

[sardog1]

Yep, this is the appropriate response to your decades of turning a blind eye to the child sexual abuse being perpetrated in your football program:

“STATE COLLEGE, Pa. — A near-century-old outdoor recreation club will now refrain from going outside because it is too dangerous out in the wilderness, according to officials at Penn State University.

The Penn State Outing Club, originally founded in 1920, announced last week that the university will no longer allow the club to organize outdoor, student-led trips starting next semester. The hiking, camping and other outdoors-focused activities the student-led club has long engaged in are too risky, the university’s offices of Student Affairs and Risk Management determined.
...
Penn State conducted a ‘proactive risk assessment’ not based on any previous participant injuries, according to Powers. She said Outing Club activities were rated high risk because they take place in remote environments with poor cell service and distance from emergency services.”

Penn State says wilderness is too risky for outdoors clubs

 

[Grey J]

Using this reasoning, they should end the football program tomorrow. While outdoor activities like rock climbing, mountain biking, and even hiking carry inherent risks, can they possibly, even in the aggregate, exceed those of a single football game with its propensity for inducing concussions, not to mention leg injuries? If the university's goal is to minimize risk, then their decision makes sense until you realize that taken to its logical conclusion, it would probably result in the elimination of the entire athletic department. Every participant in every imaginable sport risks injury in some way.

 

[richard]

Give them all a trophy ��

 

[griffin]

Using this reasoning, they should end the football program tomorrow.

The football program generates gazillions in alumni donations and other revenues. They will happily continue to throw student athletes into the meat grinder to preserve that, long-term damage be damned.

 

[Raven]

There is one university absolutely off my daughter's list of potential schools. That's enough bad decisions from them. Does anyone read this stuff before they move forward anymore? Absurd.

 

[richard]

There is one university absolutely off my daughter's list of potential schools. That's enough bad decisions from them. Does anyone read this stuff before they move forward anymore? Absurd.

They’re almost all like that now. “MERRY CHRISTMAS “. OH , I’m sorry. I meant to say, “Happy Hollidays “ ��

 

[Grey J]

They’re almost all like that now. “MERRY CHRISTMAS “. OH , I’m sorry. I meant to say, “Happy Hollidays “ ��

Sorry but I don't see how that's related to the issue in OP.

 

[richard]

Sorry but I don't see how that's related to the issue in OP.

It’s an offshoot. They’re related.

 

[sierra]

Once again, the molding of a new generation into a bunch of snowflakes. I was sent on a 2 week expedition at 13 years old. We stepped in bee's nest, had a snake bite, got many ticks, some sickness from eating plants, (mild). But all of us came out better for it. Hell, it shaped me into the great mountaineer, I am today. This will hurt Penn state. I've heard 3 parents say its now off their child's radar. Although, to be honest. In light of the child abuse scandal, I'm just amazed people still patronize that den of Hell.

 

[JoshandBaron]

It’s an offshoot. They’re related.

Maybe you could lay out the connection for me because I'm not seeing it either.

 

[Raven]

Once again, the molding of a new generation into a bunch of snowflakes. I was sent on a 2 week expedition at 13 years old. We stepped in bee's nest, had a snake bite, got many ticks, some sickness from eating plants, (mild). But all of us came out better for it. Hell, it shaped me into the great mountaineer, I am today. This will hurt Penn state. I've heard 3 parents say its now off their child's radar. Although, to be honest. In light of the child abuse scandal, I'm just amazed people still patronize that den of Hell.

Sandusky was enough.

 

[richard]

Maybe you could lay out the connection for me because I'm not seeing it either.

They have a connection to the PC police.

 

[TJsName]

They have a connection to the PC police.

The connection is also unclear to me, as the Penn State outing club issue appears to be more of an issue with fear of litigation/financial loss than about political correctness. Per Google, political correctness is "the avoidance, often considered as taken to extremes, of forms of expression or action that are perceived to exclude, marginalize, or insult groups of people who are socially disadvantaged or discriminated against".

Perhaps you are using the vernacular (meaning how people actually use it vs what it actually means)? In which case, if you believe these items to be linked, you might be using Politically Correct to mean '"someone doing something differently than I would", which would be hard to argue with, but doesn't really add much to the conversation.

 

[richard]

Exactly

The connection is also unclear to me, as the Penn State outing club issue appears to be more of an issue with fear of litigation/financial loss than about political correctness. Per Google, political correctness is "the avoidance, often considered as taken to extremes, of forms of expression or action that are perceived to exclude, marginalize, or insult groups of people who are socially disadvantaged or discriminated against".

Perhaps you are using the vernacular (meaning how people actually use it vs what it actually means)? In which case, if you believe these items to be linked, you might be using Politically Correct to mean '"someone doing something differently than I would", which would be hard to argue with, but doesn't really add much to the conversation.

I couldn’t have said it better. They’re the same group.

 

[TCD]

Totally connected. The over-arching concept is to "protect the students from any experience that might be uncomfortable" whether that be a poor grade, a different opinion from theirs, or a scratchy time in the woods.

Sierra is right on; we're not doing these kids any favors. I didn't have kids, but if I did it would be two years at Community College and then focused career targeted education (from professional societies, in house company training, etc.). And employers need to get over the idea that everyone has to have a BS, because a "BS" is exactly that in many cases.

I think kids would greatly benefit from a NOLS or Outward Bound type program as a routine part of college.

 

[Nessmuk]

I was part of a university "outing club" back in the day. The small group of us regulars focussed on cave exploration almost exclusively. We learned, taught, and practiced lots of vertical rope work, mapping, cave ecology and geology, and spent up to 24 continuous hours underground in certain new exploration working caves in the mud and water in the vast cave networks of Schoharie County NY. All done with a high level of safety and proper training. We had trips going almost every weekend. We trained many new cave explorers in those years. The core group of us took one Christmas break to travel to New Mexico to work with the park service on cave science in the Carlsbad system and adjoining karst areas. As we advanced and accepted new members, the university gave us an annual budget of a couple hundred bucks or more for equipment. The policy was if we didn't spend it all we would lose the unspent amount the following year. So guess what we made sure we did with the funds each year? Do you think State College Pa or any other U. would do the same for us now?

 

[JoshandBaron]

"protect the students from any experience that might be uncomfortable"

I must have glossed over that part of the article

 

[TJsName]

I must have glossed over that part of the article

Me too. It seems like this is actually old people working to protect an institution, regardless of the impact on young people. This article may not perfectly fit into a narrative that younger generations are coddled in ways that previous generations weren't.

Anyone who claims that they had a horrific experience and are better off for it has the advantage of having lived. Those in previous generations that died are generally voiceless. My point here is to not bemoan progress as a softening of society. Image arguing 30 years in the future that, "I used to drive and get in horrific car accidents, and I am better off than all these kids who are driven around on autopilot and survive with ease".

 

[skiguy]

The way I read this article is that outdoor experiences are not being extinguished for these students but it is more a change of leadership from a student base led program to a faculty base led program. Albeit at an increased cost. I’m not saying wether this is good or bad. But there has been more than one instance of Collegiate adventures gone awry due to poor Student leadership. Just go ask Jeremy Haas whom got thrown out of the UNH Outing Club for his reckless leadership. The below link was an incident that happened after his removal. http://publications.americanalpinec...ampshire-Mount-Jefferson-and-Mount-Washington
Personally I think more leadership training for students could be a better solution in some programs rather than eliminating student leadership. As far as epic experiences in the outdoors and their relevance to one’s character it’s a matter of humility IMO. Certainly all outdoor experiences lend themselves to learning wether epic or not. But an epic experience facilitating a holy than thou mentality is at best futile.

 

[Grey J]

This article appeared in the NYT on Sunday and made a very strong case (made here also by Sierra) that risk is an important factor in learning. The article concludes with the quotes, "Risk and potential go hand in hand." and "Protection from pain guarantees weakness, fragility, and greater suffering in the future."

https://www.nytimes.com/2018/04/30/...7831524emc=edit_ty_20180430&ref=headline&te=1

While no one on this board would consider a day hike to Owls Head to be a dangerous or reckless endeavor, non-hikers I know viewed it as such when I explained my plans for that hike a couple of years ago. Considering the 18 miles and 3000 feet of elevation gain, my advanced age (64 at the time), the 2 calf high stream crossings, the steep climb up the slide and especially the fact that I was going solo, in their minds, this hike was "dangerous" and "unwise." While I expected (and got!) a long grueling day, I was well prepared and knew that it was within the boundaries of my abilities and my level of endurance. Was it without risk? Of course not. Were the risks manageable and reasonable? I thought so, and the result confirmed it.