digital camera - batteries, cold.

[giggy]

This may sound like a stupid question - what is the problem with digital cameras in cold - is it the battery life, the cold affecting the camera, or both? I have borrowed some low end ones that did not work - 0 to minus 10. (with it in my breast pocket staying warm).

We are having out first child and my wife is from ireland and we think the digital camera is the way to go becuase we can send pix to her folks eaily, etc..

But of course I have to link this with my hiking/climbing activites and would like to get one that can be used in the cold. Right now - I use disposable ones.

We don't need top of the line pic quality - I am thinking 4.0 megapixel will be perfect for our needs. Is there a differencee in quality in regards to working better in cold, etc...


It didn't see right the thinkg didn't work at -10 with the camera staying warm next to my body.

It did work as soon as I got home and warmed up.

Any suggestions from people who have had success with one in these temps are appreciated. I would like to spend less than 300$$



thanks

 

[sli74]

I carry 2 batteries in winter, I warm the battery up in my hand, sometimes I even carry the battery inside my mitten and put it into the camera right before I take pictures. It is a hassle but it works quite well.

You can also place the camera in a double ziplock bag, and place a chemical warmer inside a sock and place the camera in the sock as well and try that.

sli74

 

[shadowcat]

batteries and cold

yes on a few occassions i will have a fully charged battery but the cold kills it. don't know the science behind it but now i keep my camera inside next to my body. happens quite frequently with the cold - all types of batteries and cameras.

 

[David Metsky]

This isn't as big a problem as you might think as most cameras will last a full day without much problem unless it gets quite cold. But Seema's suggestion about having two batteries or two sets of NiMH AAs, one in the camera one in your inside pocket, should get you through just about any dayhike.

Also, by turning off the LCD screen you will save a lot of energy use and make the batteries last a much longer time. I always use the optical viewfinder, and wouldn't buy a camera that doesn't have one (some don't) for this reason.

All cameras will work at -10 or even -20, it's just a matter of battery life.

I just bought a Canon SD300, but you'll have to give more details about what you want to do with the camera to get better recomendations. What size camera would you feel comfortable with? (Ultra compact, compact, all-in-one) How big of a zoom is important to you? Do you want AAs or a proprietary lithium-ion battery? Is movie mode important? How about Image Stabilization?

I recommend reading the reviews on DPReview or DCResource to get an idea of what is out there and available.

-dave-

 

[Neil]

I have a low-end Kodak Easy-Share dig camera and it works all the time in the heavy duty cold. Whether it's in my breast pocket or in my webbing side pocket on my daypack it never quits. I just use NiMh rechargeables, all day, never using the display screen as a viewfinder. I've beaten the living crap out of that camera, gotten it all wet with falling slush and rain and it just won't quit. So maybe the answer is to get a cheap Ford and leave the Beamer at home when you go winter hiking.

 

[Pucknuts61]

When hiking, I use a cheap 2.0 Megapixel camera but with Lithium batteries and keep it in my jacket or leg pocket. If anything happens to the camera, then I'm not too concerned because it was under $100...down and dirty but it does the trick for my needs, and I haven't had any problems down to 0.

 

[DougPaul]

Cold can have several effects on a digital camera:

* Alkaline batts are poor (for this service) when warm, even worse in the cold. NiMH are less affected by the cold, but still degrade. Lithiums are virtually unaffected by the temps that we hike in. (Cold simply slows the chemistry of the battery--it will recover when warmed up.)

* The lubricants in the camera thicken in the cold. Requres more effort from the focus and zoom motors. A non-zoom camera may be preferable.

* Moving parts tolerances can change and a moving part can bind.

* The electronics has temperature limits--it may not operate properly if too hot or too cold.

* The brightness and speed of LCDs are affected by temperature.

* The LCD display can freeze and crack in the cold. I suspect (hope?) the displays on a typical camera are "outdoor rated", but I do not know the temp limits or temp at which freezing may occur--it probably depends upon the design of the display. (It is probably well below 32F.)

* Condesation (and possible freezing) can be a problem if the camera is moved between warm and cold environments. Humans, of course, are a good supply of warm humid air to freeze on the camera. Keep the camera in a ziplock bag if you bring it into a warm place. (I simply kept my film camera cold and everything was fine.)

My digital camera (Canon A75) is rated 32-104F. It will operate below 32F--haven't had it so cold that it fails yet. If the zoom has problems due to the cold, I will get a non-zoom model. I suspect the low-end rating is overly conservative if one avoids condensation.

Doug

 

[shadowcat]

Info on Batteries and Cold

posted this reply from Thomas Dist. (great place for quality batteries, chargers etc - great prices)


"Lithium batteries work best in cold weather.
But most nIMh will also.
The trick is have the higher milliamp batteries like the Energizer 2500mAh AA batteries.
Have them fully charged and yes if you can keep them next to your body in Extremely cold wheather you will probably get more shots or run time before the batteries discharge.

PS thanks for shopping with us and for recommending us to other people."

 

[giggy]

thanks - all - this is great info

 

[bpschroder]

Rechargeable batteries don't hold up well to cold weather, but will start working again once warmed up.
AA Lithium Batteries should survive the cold longer, but regular alkaline will suffer the same fate as the Nimh batteries.

You could try some of the Canon Powershot A line the A standing for AA batteries that they take. Canon's generally have solid optics, but they haven't updated the digital processors in awhile so, they've started to lag behind other camera manufactures as far as start-up and shutter time. The exception to this is the Canon SD300 which has a new chip, but has its own rechargeable batteries (bad for cold weather).

You could also try keeping a hand warmer in the pocket to keep the batteries warm too.

In reality digital cameras should actually work better at colder temperatures because the CCD and CMOS sensors will pick up less noise in the photos. This would result in sharper photos at higher ISO levels, unfortunately keeping your batteries warm is the big problem. Some amatuer astronomers liquid cool their cameras for shots of the night sky, but of course they have them hooked up to a permanent source of power instead of a battery.

 

[DougPaul]

In reality digital cameras should actually work better at colder temperatures because the CCD and CMOS sensors will pick up less noise in the photos. This would result in sharper photos at higher ISO levels, unfortunately keeping your batteries warm is the big problem. Some amatuer astronomers liquid cool their cameras for shots of the night sky, but of course they have them hooked up to a permanent source of power instead of a battery.

Yes, cold reduces the thermal noise in the sensors. Professional telescopes use chilled sensors. However the other electronics, such as the image processing chips used to process and compress the image (ie create a .jpg file) may fail at low temperatures. (For instance, check the spec sheet for a microprocessor--it will list a max and min operating temp.)

Doug

 

[David Metsky]

The exception to this is the Canon SD300 which has a new chip, but has its own rechargeable batteries (bad for cold weather).

It's been great so far this winter. With ultracompacts you pretty much have to assume you'll get a proprietary battery, but it packs enough juice for several 100 shots on a cold winter dayhike. A second backup is $20 and with two batteries I should be able to handle most anything on a dayhike or weekend.

-dave-

 

[starbaby]

Here is how I solve the cold camera problem.

It works really well, even in the harshest weather. I put my camera in a small, snug, fleece bag with a drawstring. Inside the bag, I put one of those little chemical heater packs that you can find anywhere nowadays (Home Depot, Walmart, etc). It keeps the camera nice and toasty.

SB

 

[TundraTony]

Here in Fairbanks I have ran into the cold battery problem a few times(seeing as how the temperature regularly drops to -30) carrying it in your mitten is a good idea, what I do is put the whole camera in a wool sock inside my fleece...even then the battery gets cold and depleted, but at each break I take it out an warm it in my hand...another technique instructed to me by Alaskans is to put the battery in your clenched fist and put your hand down your pants....it will subsequently keep your hand warm and gt the battery all juiced up again!

 

[afka_bob]

All of the talk of changing batteries outside in the cold and warming them near my body make me a little nervous. Film cameras where never particularly fond of condensation and other moisture encountered outside in winter weather -- digital cameras, I think, absolutely hate it.

Having experienced enough condensation to fog the inside of my camera's lens (inventing, according to one of my hiking buddies, "the disposable digital camera") made me look for other solutions. The camera recovered, but I wouldn't want to make a habit of that.

External batteries like Digipower's DPS-9000 make a lot of sense to me. Twice I used this in combination with a plastic bag over the whole camera sealed around a lens adapter tube (and filter) with a big rubberband -- I never had to open up the camera in adverse conditions (not for the weekend, at least). All controls were operable through the plastic bag, and the LCD was usable through it, if not crystal clear.

I now use a dive housing with high capacity NiMHs (2300 mAh+). Though I always carry spares, several times (every time I've tried it), with a little care, I have managed well over 200 exposures spread over a weekend w/o having to change batteries. The temperature never dipped below zero, but it got close, so I don't know how subzero weather would affect the camera or batteries.

 

[starbaby]

Indeed, I found the process of removing the battery every time and putting it within my clothing not without any risks. Last fall, on the summit of Gothics, I was in the middle of doing all that and after I got ready to put the battery in, I realized that in all the fuddling around (opening my coat, removing mittens, holding the camera case, etc,) that I dropped the battery in the snow without realizing it (1 foot deep). It was freezing cold, the wind was blowing hard and it was the whole winter summit scene. Fortunately, I had refrained from stomping around during this and when I looked down, between my legs, there was a little hole in the snow. I reached straigth down, and there was my battery. Crises resolved!

SB

 

[freesteamin]

Olympus Stylus 400

I've heard others say they've had trouble with other digitals but I haven't had any problems with my compact Olympus Stylus 400 in the cold. I keep it in a pouch on my shoulder strap all day and have taken up to 40 shots at temps down to -10 on all day hikes. No problems, not even any low battery indications even with frequent use of flash and zoom. I used to keep my previous weatherproof (film) camera inside my jacket but lens condensation was a problem. I've had two Olympus compact weatherproof cameras over the last 20 years, one film and one digital, I have drowned them and generally beaten the crap out of them and they stick keep on ticking.

 

[Nadine]

I'm having to take my battery out too, and keep it in my inner coat or pants pocket. I'm finding I'm taking less pictures thanI would like because of the hassle

I thought at first it was just the special Cannon battery that had problems, but I guesss that's not issue.

 

[Darl58]

Lithium batteries...??

I own a Canon Powershot S45 and the lithium battery has been dying constantly. I have emailed Canon and lithium batteries do not hold well in the real cold. I have tried the hand warmers in my camera case and that seems to help. My camera has the zoom that opens when turned on and that uses battery life just turning the camera on. On the minus days I might as well leave it at home...

The Canon customer service person recommends if the battery has been recharged alot to try using a new battery for your cold trips. ($70 each)
They have replaced the original battery with a higher capacity one now.

There was information in the AMC magazine a month or two back about how lithium batteries are not good and says which ones are better in the cold. I don't have it available today but will re-read it. My boyfriend has a Sony camera (very compact) which the battery seems to last just fine.

Can be frustrating on those beautifull sunny days at the top with a dead camera!

 

[David Metsky]

I have emailed Canon and lithium batteries do not hold well in the real cold.

This isn't true, AFAIK. Lithiums do fine in the cold, non-rechargables are better but rechargable lithium-ions work just fine. Your specific battery may be having problems, but as a class they work well.

It also may have to do with how you use your camera. Turn the LCD off and just use the optical viewfinder, that will save a lot of juice.

There was information in the AMC magazine a month or two back about how lithium batteries are not good and says which ones are better in the cold. I don't have it available today but will re-read it. My boyfriend has a Sony camera (very compact) which the battery seems to last just fine.

Can be frustrating on those beautifull sunny days at the top with a dead camera!

I'll check the article in the AMC Outdoors. The very compact Sonys use lithium-ion rechargables as well, and my compact Canon (SD300) has worked without fail in the cold temps this winter. I've been planning on buying a backup battery but I haven't needed on yet.

-dave-