Digital cameras and cold

[1ADAM12]

Two weeks ago the temps were in the 0F range and my camera had trouble working. So I tried putting a hand warmer in with the camera to keep it warmer and it seemed to work great. Anyone else use this technique to keep their camera warm in winter? Seems to work

 

[Taconic]

It's not the camera--it's the batteries.

If you don't want to mess with a hand warmer, just keep the batteries in a pocket close to your skin when you're not using the camera.

 

[1ADAM12]

I had lithium batteries in the camera and kept the camera close to my body to keep it warm but from sweating the camera got moisture on the lens and then when it hit the cold it froze creating blurry pics So that is why I opted to use a hand warmer

 

[Grumpy]

It's not the camera--it's the batteries.

If you don't want to mess with a hand warmer, just keep the batteries in a pocket close to your skin when you're not using the camera.

To the extent that cameras rely on mechanical components even today -- the moving mirror and shutter mechanism in a SLR, and moving lens aperture diaphragms, for examples -- cold temps affect more than just the camera battery. The action of mechanical components can slow down in frigid temperatures, often due to lubricants becoming more viscous or outright congealing.

Packing the camera and lenses with a hand warmer (or several) probably is a good idea. I read recently that some kinds of hand warmers emit water vapor. You might, then, want to stash some dessicant packs in with your gear, as well.

G.

 

[DougPaul]

Batteries weaken in the cold lithium AA/AAA (primary, single-use) are best, then NiCad, then NiMH and Lion, then alkaline. (Alkaline aren't much good for digital cameras even when warm.) A spare set of batteries can be warmed in one's pocket (no other metal in the pocket or carry in an insulating case--a short circuit can result in burns) and switched in as needed. Batteries aren't dead until they are warm and dead...

As Grumpy noted, lubricants become more viscous when cold.

Condensation becomes a problem. (Keep the camera in a ziplock when using body heat or a handwarmer to keep moisture out of the camera. A desiccant pack in the ziplock wouldn't hurt.) Don't exhale on the camera. Moisture from your skin can condense directly on the camera (just by holding the camera near your face). (Canon rates its non-waterproof cameras down to 32F (0C) because of the risk of ice in the mechanism and its waterproof camera down to 14F (-10C).)

The LCD displays will slow down and some can crack in extreme cold.

I prefer to keep my camera cold and dry (and swap in warm batteries as needed) for typical NH hiking temps. I only warm the camera body if this doesn't work.


This topic has been discussed a number of times... A search or two should bring up a bunch of useful past threads.

Doug

 

[Taconic]

To the extent that cameras rely on mechanical components even today -- the moving mirror and shutter mechanism in a SLR, and moving lens aperture diaphragms, for examples -- cold temps affect more than just the camera battery.

No question that's true, but at 0 degrees? I've taken SLRs out at that temperature many times. The only problem I've had is with battery life.

 

[Grumpy]

No question that's true, but at 0 degrees? I've taken SLRs out at that temperature many times. The only problem I've had is with battery life.

I've had mechanical camera components slow down in barely freezing temperatures. Of course, that's with the gear exposed to those temps for extended periods of time, too. Standard "winterization" of camera gear used to mean a trip to the repair shop to have lubricants removed.

G.

 

[Taconic]

Hmm. Maybe I've just been lucky.

 

[blaze]

Any recommendations for a point-n-shoot that's cold-resistant?

I've been using a Canon S2 IS. A nice camera but it does not like the cold.

A few additional parameters:

- I prefer AA or AAA batteries to proprietary (not a show stopper though)
- Doesn't have to have a big zoom - 3x to 5x is fine
- Manual controls are nice (Av, Tv, full manual, plus manual selection of white balance)
- 5-6 megapixels minimum.
- A wide angle lens is nice (28 mm equivalent)

It does not have to be a currently manufactured model.

Thanks!

 

[David Metsky]

I shoot my S3 in the cold all the time. I suspect the problem is your batteries, not the camera. Get a new set of quality low discharge NIMH batteries (like Sanyo Enloops) and see if that doesn't do you better.

There are no major camera makers that use AAAs. Proprietary Lithium-Ion batteries will do better then NiMH batteries in most cases, but the difference isn't that bad.

The only current cameras with AAs, Wide angle, and manual controls are bigger ultrazooms like your S2. Are you looking for a pocketable camera?

 

[blaze]

I shoot my S3 in the cold all the time. I suspect the problem is your batteries, not the camera. Get a new set of quality low discharge NIMH batteries (like Sanyo Enloops) and see if that doesn't do you better.

There are no major camera makers that use AAAs. Proprietary Lithium-Ion batteries will do better then NiMH batteries in most cases, but the difference isn't that bad.

The only current cameras with AAs, Wide angle, and manual controls are bigger ultrazooms like your S2. Are you looking for a pocketable camera?

Thanks for your response. Re. batteries, as coincidence would have it, I was using a set of fairly new Eneloops on Katahdin last weekend when I encountered problems. It's happened before with various other sets of batteries. But I have not tried lithium AAs. Good idea to try that!

It doesn't have to be pocketable. I consider anything smaller than my SLR to be a small camera.

I'd certainly go with a proprietary battery if need be. My first digicam was a Panasonic FZ15 that was very good in the cold. Aftermarket replacement batteries were cheap.

 

[David Metsky]

Here are all the current cameras with a wide angle lens, Li-Ion batteries and manual controls:

http://www.dcresource.com/reviews/c...ch=Y&wideLensSearch=Y&submit.x=58&submit.y=10

There are a bunch of good choices in there. If you want to avoid the biggest ultrazooms like your S2 I like the Canon G11, the Canon S90, the Panasonic ZS5/7 and the Fuji F200.

 

[DougPaul]

Thanks for your response. Re. batteries, as coincidence would have it, I was using a set of fairly new Eneloops on Katahdin last weekend when I encountered problems. It's happened before with various other sets of batteries. But I have not tried lithium AAs. Good idea to try that!

My info sources say that Lion and NiMH have similar cold tolerance. I am not aware of any info stating that low-self-discharge NiMHs (eg Eneloops) are any more tolerant then regular NiMHs. Lithium (single-use) AA batts certainly do better, however they can damage some cameras. (Run them in an incandescent flashlight for a few minutes before putting them in a camera or GPS to burn off the initial 1.8V spike down to ~1.5V. to minimize the chance of damage.) You can always keep a spare set of batteries in a warm pocket and switch as necessary.

I'd certainly go with a proprietary battery if need be.

Unfortunately there seems to be less and less of a choice on the battery issue as time goes on...

Doug

 

[blaze]

My info sources say that Lion and NiMH have similar cold tolerance...

...You can always keep a spare set of batteries in a warm pocket and switch as necessary.

Thanks Doug.

Re. having a set of spares, actually I did, another set of four NiMH's in my pants pocket, where I thought they'd stay warm. They were not brand new but they have been a reliable set. They performed no better than the Eneloops once I switched over.

Re. the comparitive merits of Lithium vs. NiMH batteries at cold temperatures, there seem to be varying opinions on this.

Here's a thread in which one contributor seems to indicate superior cold weather performance from lithium batteries:

"At -4 degrees F both NIMH AA and Lithium CR5 batteries are down to 1/2 normal capacities. At 32 degrees F both are down to between 90% - 95% of capacity. Alkaline AA cells are down to 65% at 32 degrees F and useless at -4 F.

Four NIMH cells will give you about 4.8 volts, while the Lithium batteries will put out about 6.0 volts. Most voltage regulators drop out when the supply voltage drops below a certain level, thus all things being equal the Lithium batteries will probably run longer. "​

Here's a "battery guide" which also talks about the merits (and demerits) of lithium batteries:

"Sub-freezing temperatures where long shelf-life is required. Alkalines are usually better when you need long shelf-life (e.g., emergency flashlights), but they don't work well in sub-freezing temperatures. NiMH batteries are fine in subfreezing temperatures (source), but they have a high self-discharge rate. So if you need batteries in subfreezing temperatures and you need really long shelf life, then lithiums might suit your needs. But they're still toxic and you still can't recharge them. "​

...Although he is looking at shelf life as another requirement.

Lithium and Lithium Ion batteries are not the same thing... you probably knew that already.

I'll try a set of lithium batteries next time I'm out in the cold. A low-cost experiment, and certainly less expensive than a new (or new used) camera!

 

[Paradox]

I have had two problems with subzero temperatures and eleltronics. One is the dropping of voltage from batteries, and the other is water condensation as ice that blurs lenses and displays. Since I have started placing a handwarmer in my camera case and another one in the cozy for my GPS, neither problem has recurred. While it is true, hand warmers emit water vapor, clearly it is not enough to be a problem with my equipment.

 

[DougPaul]

Thanks Doug.

Re. having a set of spares, actually I did, another set of four NiMH's in my pants pocket, where I thought they'd stay warm. They were not brand new but they have been a reliable set. They performed no better than the Eneloops once I switched over.

Regular and low-self-discharge NiMHs use the same chemistry...

Re. the comparitive merits of Lithium vs. NiMH batteries at cold temperatures, there seem to be varying opinions on this.

Here's a thread in which one contributor seems to indicate superior cold weather performance from lithium batteries:

"At -4 degrees F both NIMH AA and Lithium CR5 batteries are down to 1/2 normal capacities. At 32 degrees F both are down to between 90% - 95% of capacity. Alkaline AA cells are down to 65% at 32 degrees F and useless at -4 F.​

Google "lithium CR5" and you will find that CR5s are a primary cell, not a rechargable. (Lion (=lithium ion) is rechargable.)

Four NIMH cells will give you about 4.8 volts, while the Lithium batteries will put out about 6.0 volts. Most voltage regulators drop out when the supply voltage drops below a certain level, thus all things being equal the Lithium batteries will probably run longer. "​

This guy doesn't seem to know about discharge curves (voltage vs charge level)...

Here's a "battery guide" which also talks about the merits (and demerits) of lithium batteries:

"Sub-freezing temperatures where long shelf-life is required. Alkalines are usually better when you need long shelf-life (e.g., emergency flashlights), but they don't work well in sub-freezing temperatures. NiMH batteries are fine in subfreezing temperatures (source), but they have a high self-discharge rate. So if you need batteries in subfreezing temperatures and you need really long shelf life, then lithiums might suit your needs. But they're still toxic and you still can't recharge them. "​

...Although he is looking at shelf life as another requirement.

Shelf life is irrelevant here...
(Also, I am not able to access the link.)

Lithium and Lithium Ion batteries are not the same thing... you probably knew that already.

Yes. Unfortunately many others confuse the types...

If you want reliable information on batteries, try some professional sources of info, such as: http://www.batteryuniversity.com http://www.buchmann.ca/default.asp http://data.energizer.com/

I'll try a set of lithium batteries next time I'm out in the cold. A low-cost experiment, and certainly less expensive than a new (or new used) camera!

Lithium primary cells (single-use, non-rechargable) are usable to ~-40F and are far better in the cold than the other common consumer battery technologies. Just use the flashlight trick that I described in an earlier post to burn the initial spike off. See http://data.energizer.com/PDFs/l91.pdf for discharge curves showing the spike.

There is a nice little tutorial on battery performance vs temp for several technologies at http://data.energizer.com/PDFs/temperat.pdf.

From http://www.buchmann.ca/Chap5-page5.asp

At low temperatures, the performance of all battery chemistries drops drastically. While -20°C (-4°F) is threshold at which the NiMH, SLA and Li-ion battery stop functioning, the NiCd can go down to -40°C (-40°F). At that frigid temperature, the NiCd is limited to a discharge rate of 0.2C (5 hour rate).

(SLA=sealed lead-acid.)

Don't forget that the camera may also be affected by the cold even if the batteries are ok. (As a minimum, the camera may draw more current in the cold--a load which even warm batteries may not be able to handle.)

Doug