Does long-term hiking have to involve a list?

[B the Hiker]

Hiker Ed just sent out his 2017 missive with the folks who finished this and that list. Now things are evolving to "over 70" and "second time around."

It got me wondering: for those who hike for decades and decades (and I am now old enough to be in that category), does one need to have lists? I have reached the sad conclusion that I think one does.

I know of one, possibly two long-term hikers who do not keep lists of which I am aware, but that's about it. It is probably the case that virtually every person on this site hikes to a list now. Is that the case?

Brian

 

[richard]

I sometimes make a personal list. I enjoy trying and sometimes making a goal. At my advanced age, sometimes it can be difficult. But it can give me a little more incentive.

 

[Bob Kittredge]

Most people start hiking casually with friends or to get exercise and gradually realize they really enjoy it. Then they're just interested in hikes with good views, fun scrambles, or which push them a little harder. Hike to Mount Zealand? What for? For a long time I said "I'm not really a peakbagger" but I kept track of which 4Ks I'd done. I got to the point where I only had eight boring 4Ks left and let them sit for a year or two before finally succumbing. (I finished on Zealand.)

Then there are the people who hike the same peaks over and over because they know they're rewarding. Franc Ridge, Chocorua, Jefferson, even Monadnock.

And some people are just followers, who join whatever hikes their friends, clubs, or meet-up groups are leading without even being aware of lists.

 

[peakbagger]

I stopped keeping track quite awhile ago.

 

[Jazzbo]

I'm not much into lists. but that's just me. Over course of year I see something on map and say to myself I haven't been up there in a long time look over my list and and add it to sheet I keep. A weekend comes and presents certain weather and personal time constraints. I might look at the list and say humm might be a good opportunity to do this one. I like going off-trail to interesting features or terrain not necessarily a peak on a list. I'm pretty sure I'm minority in this view of outdoor recreation. I get many of my ideas for objectives from Steve Smith's blog. He gives me more ideas than I will ever have time to execute. I don't have time to go driving all over NE and NY to pick off peaks on a list. Hence I tend to focus on exploring interesting wild areas in detail within 30-60 minute drive from our place in NH. It would be nice if I could find others with similar inclinations but they are rare so I end up doing much solo outings. This has added benefit of helping to avoid crowds currently found on more popular peaks trails etc.

 

[DayTrip]

In my relatively short "serious hiking phase" of the past 6 years or so I just started off hiking more. Having done the same stuff over the years I started half heartedly following the 48 4k list to try new areas. Figured it would be cool to do the 10 tallest peaks, then it was 20....That quickly evolved into an obsession as I saw more areas I had never seen and wanted to see more. Finished the list in about 13 months. Then I went back to favorites, climbing via all the possible routes, then began other lists (like a "ravine trail" list, etc). Then there was Winter hiking and a new 48 4k list. In Summer it became about "epic" hikes, covering as many miles as I could, how many summits could I hit, more vertical, etc, etc. I suppose that is just a natural progression of being in better shape and able to do more. And of course detailed data saved of everything.

The past few years though I have soured quite a bit on the "lists" and numerical goals. I have 44 of 48 done on my Winter list (Zealand, Isolation, Jefferson and Adams left) and while nearly done I find myself having no desire to finish it. I can't wait to do Jefferson and Adams. I have no desire whatsoever to do Zealand or Isolation. Just don't care. Those hikes don't excite me at all. I think the biggest thing over the past several years is seeing so many people out in the woods doing lists, climbing peaks just to check something off the list, taking the shortest possible routes, going when the trails are well packed out, etc and going straight to social media talking about what bad ***** they are for "crushing Tecumseh". And lately it seems to be all about trail running and speed. Seems like everyone references a time when they post their hikes. Quite frankly the "accomplishment" of most of these lists is not terribly impressive. Anyone in somewhat reasonble shape can endure some discomfort and bang these lists out. Just look at a lot of the people you see out there. Even high end goals are becoming a bit of a farce like Everest. It has become an issue of finances, where you can fly into base camp now in a helicopter, pay people to handle all your gear, carry your stuff and drag you up the mountain. That doesn't impress me. The lists certainly sparked the flame that got me going but completion of lists is not my ultimate motivation. Imagining myself as one of these people is nauseating to me now actually.

So on the heels of my biggest hiking season to date last year (did about 44 hikes covering 500 miles - not much for many here but a BIG year for me - still making comparisons and referencing numbers ) I find myself revisiting why I am hiking in the first place. I like the physical challenges and hardships, the "process" of planning the route/selecting gear/etc and most importantly the views. I often skip summits now on hikes because they are too crowded and venture into lesser used areas. If I do the entire Gulfside Trail and don't summit a single peak I don't really care. I'm getting out much earlier or starting much later in search of more solitude and more dramatic views. I usually have a general "list" (I guess there is no avoiding it 100%) of stuff I want to do and each week I'll kick around a few ideas in my head until something grabs my enthusiasm and that is what I do. No check marks. No feeling of disappointment that I didn't summit anything. I had a lot of stuff on this "list" that I didn't get done last year and it doesn't bother me at all. Had a lot of great hikes, many of which were not on my radar until the idea hit me that prior week. This is how I imagine I'll hike for the rest of my life. No lists. Just experiences and skill building for even richer experiences.

So I think that is a longwinded way of saying I don't think you need any kind of list as long as the "pull" of the mountains still makes you want to get out there. Something will catch your fancy and keep you loading up the car each week. Who cares if anyone else is impressed with it, you were 30 minutes slower than someone else or there is no patch for it. Was your hike fun and satisfying to YOU? Mission accomplished.

 

[Kimball]

Most people start hiking casually with friends or to get exercise and gradually realize they really enjoy it. Then they're just interested in hikes with good views, fun scrambles, or which push them a little harder. . . .

Then there are the people who hike the same peaks over and over because they know they're rewarding. Franc Ridge, Chocorua, Jefferson, even Monadnock.

And some people are just followers, who join whatever hikes their friends, clubs, or meet-up groups are leading without even being aware of lists.

I totally agree with Bob here, except I switched from just-for-fun to working-on-the-48 when I got about 1/2 way through. Hiking has always been and still is my favorite form recreation, I'm 54. It's not so much "The List" I enjoy as it is visiting new places and that sense of discovery. I don't keep track of peaks anymore after my first time thorough. I don't send in for the patches either (finished NEHH, ADK46, NE111/NE115). But I still LOVE staring at maps, visiting new places, and following others on their list.

 

[DayTrip]

I totally agree with Bob here, except I switched from just-for-fun to working-on-the-48 when I got about 1/2 way through. Hiking has always been and still is my favorite form recreation, I'm 54. It's not so much "The List" I enjoy as it is visiting new places and that sense of discovery. I don't keep track of peaks anymore after my first time thorough. I don't send in for the patches either (finished NEHH, ADK46, NE111/NE115). But I still LOVE staring at maps, visiting new places, and following others on their list.

Good points. While for me lists are nauseating I don't begrudge others for doing it. Not everyone has the same purpose for hiking as I do. There is a competitive, fitness aspect for runners, completing lists for others provides some sense of satisfaction, etc. So times, checkmarks and summit selfies are the goal for some and if that provides the same rush I get from views then so be it. My goals aren't oriented around pleasing or impressing other people.

"Visiting new places and that sense of discovery" is definitely my hook. I stare at maps for hours each week, plotting out routes, thinking about the gear I'll need and imagining that "wow" moment or personal challenge that makes the trip satisfying.

 

[richard]

Good points. While for me lists are nauseating I don't begrudge others for doing it. Not everyone has the same purpose for hiking as I do. There is a competitive, fitness aspect for runners, completing lists for others provides some sense of satisfaction, etc. So times, checkmarks and summit selfies are the goal for some and if that provides the same rush I get from views then so be it. My goals aren't oriented around pleasing or impressing other people.

"Visiting new places and that sense of discovery" is definitely my hook. I stare at maps for hours each week, plotting out routes, thinking about the gear I'll need and imagining that "wow" moment or personal challenge that makes the trip satisfying.

I agree with both of these ways of enjoying my hiking trips. One time I might enjoy going somewhere that I would prefer more solitude. Another day I might want to knock off a certain peak with a couple of friends that I haven’t done yet.

 

[dug]

I followed a list for about 25 years, and not in the 20 since.

 

[Daniel Eagan]

I am grateful for the lists I followed, they got me to areas I would otherwise not have seen. Climbing Elephant, Peak Above the Nubble, and similar also helped my route finding and map reading.

Not sure I will complete any more lists. The ADK Hundred Highest peaks have been distinctly unenjoyable so far, although I really liked the NE Hundred Highest. Now my wife and I are returning to peaks we loved, and we're able to wait for good weather if we want. Some we haven't been to for twenty years. We are also heading west more. I know some get obsessive about lists, but I really appreciated the opportunity to get to so many different places in the NE.

 

[jfb]

I can remember most of the places I've hiked to, but not how many times to each because I don't record my hikes. And although I like to go to new places, I just depend on maps when deciding where to go next.

 

[TJsName]

Hiker Ed just sent out his 2017 missive with the folks who finished this and that list. Now things are evolving to "over 70" and "second time around."

It got me wondering: for those who hike for decades and decades (and I am now old enough to be in that category), does one need to have lists? I have reached the sad conclusion that I think one does.

I know of one, possibly two long-term hikers who do not keep lists of which I am aware, but that's about it. It is probably the case that virtually every person on this site hikes to a list now. Is that the case?

Brian

B, I feel like we've had this conversation before.

http://www.vftt.org/forums/showthre...-resorting-to-lists&highlight=Resorting+lists

 

[skiguy]

B, I feel like we've had this conversation before.

http://www.vftt.org/forums/showthre...-resorting-to-lists&highlight=Resorting+lists

Still don’t need no bozo buttons or decoder rings.

 

[Stan]

I still feel the same way I did 2 years ago:

"I work on lists and redline mainly because I prefer to go to different places and that was one of the pleasures when we were hiking the NE 100 highest. We may never have gone to some of those places otherwise. Occasionally, we'll repeat mountains like Katahdin and a few of the Presidentials but most often it is via a different trail, a different season or part of a different objective. However, finishing the NE 100, which we did over 10 years, was kind of liberating because after that we felt more freedom to do whatever piqued our interest.

"It often sounds like some peakbaggers do it primarily to check it off without much attention to other amenities of being out in the mountains. Some seem to do it for bragging rights. Say! Let me tell you about ....

"To each his own and I suppose in the end the compulsion to peakbag is preferable over being a couch potato, no matter the motive."

I might add that I do appreciate patches ... I still have a now threadbare fleece sweatshirt that was an important layer in many hikes, including winter, and the patches ... well, they help hold the thing together. In a way it represents a bit of an autobiography.

 

[MikePS]

Great admiration for those who have listed and gridded, significant accomplishments cudos indeed. Different motivations for me in 39 years of hiking, but things such as highest peaks in a state, # of states,hiking in a number of western states, or getting to Baxter every year are some type of "list' I guess. Mostly I love visiting some of those classic beauties and hope to weave in at least one new place each year. That being said I always set a goal of counting as many different trails every year as possible, so there is a "lister" in there somewhere. Good luck and have fun.

 

[sierra]

I have had only two list in my 40 years of steady hiking. The 4k's was my first list. It wasn't until 2000 that I started my second list, the 14ers in CO. I only recognize 1st ascents, although I consider winter ascents noteworthy. I kept records for about ten years, then stopped when I took up technical climbing and did that for ten years. When I went back to hiking, I had no desire to keep track. I can only guess at my 4k summit total. I'll be conservative and say 1700, but it's probably more. To me climbing with no list allows me to climb simply what I really want to, there is no ambiguity as to why I'm on any given mountain. I have nothing against lister's, whatever floats your boat, but there are some peaks I loath. Owls head, no thank you, especially in the winter, what a unworthy slog. Cabot, I mean, I like the cheese but that hill is boring. There are other's as well but I've made my point. Now on the same page there are some none list peaks that smoke list peaks. Mt. Height, Boott Spur, there are others. On a side note and I know this will be met with some degree of fury. many of the big time list guy's that I'm sure many on here know, are quite frankly the snobbiest hiker's I meet. I know a lot by sight, they look and talk to like I'm a peasant. It's quite funny really and it gives me great joy that they are deluded into thinking they are so great. Maybe, Ill start bowing when they pass me.

 

[Raven]

At some point after hiking between one and five peaks in NH, one hears of the 48. "You mean there's 48 of these 4000 footers and there's a club and patch?! I'm in." Of those who actually then go on to complete the 48 all season, I suspect most settle down their hiking activities afterwards as life evolves and hiking is now less driven. A very small percentage of them go on to the W48, NE67, NEHH, etc. Gridding, redlining, long distance trails are natural, longer-term commitments for some as well. Many simply continue to hike.

I think it's also natural along this process of discovering hiking to naturally pursue such things as trail and mountain running and trail maintenance, but also as a possible entry to bird watching, forestry, conservation, art, mountain biking, etc. People evolve.

I keep lists. I like patches too and sew them on my pack. It's not to impress others. I stopped that a long time ago. It's a good conversation starter among like-minded people sometimes though. I don't consider myself an elite athlete or navigator because I hiked Boundary Peak. My grid is half full and I'm half assed about it. I use lists as a starting point for ideas, especially the 52WAV for lower summits. Sometimes a hike is more a 'workout' than anything else and a list peak is often a good one.

Some interesting thoughts come to mind whenever we discuss this:

-some hike based on lists, some don't, some use a mix.
-of those using lists, people have many reasons driving them. Some include:
-Type A personality/driven by accomplishment/goal
-They provide a logical and fairly extensive overview of the major mountains in an area
-To wear as badges of honor and to impress others
-To use as the basis of health and fitness plan...list-driven exercise

I won't pass on a November Bondcliff hike simply because I've 'done that before.'

I won't hike a mountain because a list tells me too.

I hike mountains for numerous reasons, beyond lists and beyond the simple visual aspects of summit views.

I don't keep lists for other people. They're for me.

The list is always secondary to the mountain.

"I can grid any day but today is a good day for Mount Adams."

Lists are fine but to see the mountains, you've got to look up.

If you're enjoying the hike you're on, it matters not why you came to the trail.

 

[RichS]

Lots of interesting opinions. NH48 is the only list that I wanted to finish. Then I did it with my daughter. I'm working on redlining the Whites, but don't expect to ever finish. It does inform my choices. Occasionally, I look at NE4K or NH100 or 52WAV to see my 'score', but Katahdin is the only bucket list peak. (How have I not been there?) Stratton happened when I was in the neighborhood. I've got peaks in Colorado, New Mexico, California under my belt, but none of them over 14K. Some of my most memorable hikes were Grand Canyon in a day, and sea-to-summit by foot in Juneau and Ketchikan. Those are inverted hikes, and sub-4K peaks. So, I guess I'm beyond lists, but I'm very much aware of them.

 

[David Metsky]

It is probably the case that virtually every person on this site hikes to a list now. Is that the case?

Nope, haven't cared about lists since I finished my 67 many years ago. At this point, lists hold no appeal to me even though I'm pretty close to finishing a few lists. I'm out of that phase of my life.