Down jackets & layering

[bobmak]

All the recent postings on down jackets, hoods or no hoods, heavy/light etc. made me wonder how others use their down. I think this post might benefit some new winter hikers that may want to hear opinions about this.

Just like with sleeping bags, to me the best approach seemed to buy two different jackets to be used depending on the season. On the edges of seasons (fall & spring) I use a 550 fill Campmor jacket with a removeable hood. I believe it falls more into the down sweater category than the parka category. The jacket is constructed of pretty light nylon and does not seem overly durable; it has a small zip off hood that I often leave at home and reaches just below my waist. I rarely wear it when hiking, more for evening comfort; lighter and warmer than a fleece jacket and allows me to hang around in comfort at night. It's a size medium and fits comfortably over a heavweight shirt or a light shirt and a vest. Ilike that it packs up small and is very light. I could where this one out about town and it would pass as a fairly normal looking winter jacket.

For full winter I have a Northface down parka I call "Big Red". It has a large hood (fits over a helmet), reaches about 1/3 way down my thighs and is pretty durable with a goretex outer shell. Most of my winter trips have been overnights, and this always find's it's way into the top of my pack. When I am hiking in cold temps and I stop for whatever reason, my pack opens up and I throw "big red" on. I consider this parka to be part of my layering system, and it is sized to fit over all my layers (gortex shell and a vest/sweater/jacket). I have yet to actually hike with this jacket on, but I have worn it during extended stops and there were several times when I was very happy I had it. I like that is has inside pockets big enough to fit water bottles, that it has lots of outside pockets, that it has a more than ample hood and that I could actually bivy in this thing if I had to. It is a little bit on the heavy side though and takes up about as much space in my pack as a summer sleeping bag would. If I wore this out about town I'd get lots of stares; because this is sized to fit over all my layers this parka is a large and makes me look like the michelin man!

My g.f. does mostly day hiking in nice winter weather and an occasional hut trip. She opted for a Golite 3D Polarguard parka that is sized to fit over a sweater or a goretex jacket with a light/medium shirt. This also has a hood and is sized to reach down about 1/3 if her thigh. This also serves as her primary winter coat and she has worn it skiing it colder temps. It has large inside pockets as well and a fairly ample hood that could fit a helmet. I think the price swayed her to go to synthetic over down. She also has a Lands End down sweater that she uses for late spring early fall hiking and camping.

How do you use your down? Is it sized to layer over eveything or to wear by itself at night? What do you like/dislike about it?

 

[Neil]

Excellent post Bobmak. Made me want to order up a Big Red of my own right away. (We'll know spring is here when the threads turn to sunglasses, sunscreen, mud and bugs.) I use a down parka when winter camping. Quick and easy, big time heat retention. It stays at camp when we day hike but that is in lowland Quebec. For the ADKs I want a new down jacket - my son gets my old one - on all my dayhikes and I kept wondering how much Big Red weighs. Dosn't sound like you mind the weight. I keep vacillating between an ultralite down sweater and a full bore magnum job like yours.

 

[kurcam]

i have two jackets for insulation which perform very different functions:

moonstone 750 fill down sweater

medium size (regular size for me). i wear this under a shell or alone. it is light, compressible and performs well if conditions to not become too wet.

cloudveil enclosure primaloft

large size to fit over all layers. i wear this when temps and conditions are cold and potentially wet. does not pack as well as the down sweater, but is perfect for warming up while you take a break or around camp.

 

[MissionsMan]

Big Red - Mine Too!

I tend to use my down parka as a over-all piece. I move with little insulation on. It stays in the top of my pack until i stop and then it comes out. When i start to get camp set, i am careful not to overheat. I also use it when climbing wheni have to belay in the cold, though i may be moving to a synthetic (someone is doing a homemade project for me) if its not too heavy...

 

[WildPeaks]

I use an old EMS, real full hooded down parka (vintage 1985). Very nice for in camp & cooold temps. But it weighs about 3 lbs. So I just picked up a N. Face summit series hooded down jacket. About 1/2 the weight but still plenty of loft w/ 700 power fill for dayhikes & warmer temps (above 0). The hood has Prima loft for insulation & it has a light coating on the shell to repel moisture. But if either one is on, moisture is not a real big worry. I checked a lot of jackets out & this one was about the best as far as warmth to weight ratio goes. There are lighter ones but they had no hood or fit too tight. All to get a lower weight.

 

[sardog1]

bobmak,

It's hard to improve on the example you've set here by differentiating conditions; I'm writing only to emphasize its importance for the winter newbies out there.

Hard shell + fleece, or soft shell + fleece, will work in lots of conditions, especially when you're moving. Where they stop working is when the conditions are genuinely arctic -- subzero plus big wind, or just way, way below zero. (We had an extreme example of this last winter in the Whites; some of you will recall an unfortunate outcome during that event.)

At that point, all the fleece in the world isn't going to cut it. You need a high quality down parka like bobmak's "Big Red," or something approximating its warmth/weight ratio like Primaloft. It's critical that it's long enough (as bobmak indicates his is.) And, IMO, a hood that isn't permanently sewn to the parka will disappoint you when you need it most. I have yet to meet a detachable hood that didn't leak cold air at the worst possible moment, i.e., when more than comfort was at stake.