Downmat 7 or ProLite 4 ?

[Y.L.]

I'm thinking of buying a new mattress with a better R-Value for winter. It is going to be use in combination with a RidgeRest. Would you go with an Exped Downmat 7 or a Therm-A-Rest ProLite 4 ? Do you have a better system to suggest?

Thanks,

Yves

 

[sli74]

I love my prolite 4, very comfortable and light but it is expensive, don't know anything about the exped.

sli74

 

[poison ivy]

I also like my Prolite 4 and use it even in the summer, switching from one of the older Ultralight models. It did, however, take a little getting used to because its width was a little smaller than I was used to, so that's something to look at when buying.

-Ivy

 

[canoehead]

hi
i like my pro lite 4, i use it year round and have had no complaints. i agree with Ivy, it is a little smaller and might take some getting used to.

 

[DougPaul]

I've used a prolite 4 on top of a closed cell pad on snow. Worked fine, but I haven't tested it in really cold temps yet. (Should be ok.)

Never tried a downmat.

Doug

 

[sli74]

The conventional wisdom is to use two mattresses - put an inflatable (like a Thermarest) down first, then a closed cell. Have used that combo many times on snow/ice - works well.

Kevin

Ummm . . . I usually do it the other way around. The closed foam first and then the inflatable.

sli74

 

[ripple]

Ditto.. Closed cell first, then thermarest. I find it is more comfortable.

 

[KMartman]

I thought you put the closed cell down first, then the inflatable on top ?

im pretty sure you DEFINATELY do...I assume the post or the reverse is a mistake...



M

 

[bbluee]

Check out the R Values

I have an Exped 7. It's the warmest thing I've ever used. I wonder if you could use it alone.

The following are the R-values for the pads you're considering:

2.6 The Ridgerest closed cell pad .625" thick
3.2 Therm-A-Rest ProLite 4
5.8 Prolite and Ridgerest together
4.9 Exped 7 alone

Anyway the Exped is definately warmer and IMO more comfortable. You could maybe use it in combo with something lighter than a Ridgerest to get to the 5.8 R-value level.

 

[jfb]

I have a few Thermarest pads (Standard, Camp Rest and LE) and found that they don't self-inflate very well when they're cold, so I have to blow them up with about a dozen puffs to get them fully inflated. Without full inflation they don't work very well. I assume the moisture in the foam may damage the foam or coating somewhat or possibly reduce the R-value (in the corner near the valve, at least). My vote would be to get a full length Exped 7 with stuff sack pump and use it over a half-length Ridge Rest or Evazote pad.

 

[DougPaul]

I have an Exped 7. It's the warmest thing I've ever used. I wonder if you could use it alone.

The following are the R-values for the pads you're considering:

2.6 The Ridgerest closed cell pad .625" thick
3.2 Therm-A-Rest ProLite 4
5.8 Prolite and Ridgerest together
4.9 Exped 7 alone

Anyway the Exped is definately warmer and IMO more comfortable. You could maybe use it in combo with something lighter than a Ridgerest to get to the 5.8 R-value level.

There is a risk in using an inflatable pad alone or with an inadequate closed-cell pad--if it springs a leak, you could be left with insufficient ground insulation.

The standard winter pad (circa 1975) used to be just a 1/2 inch (or greater) closed-cell pad--ensolite (foamed neopreme), or spun polypropoline. The materials have changed, but the basic closed-cell pad endures. (I spent a -30F night on a 1/2 in spun polypropoline pad on snow and was warm enough.)

BTW, the thickness of the ridgerest includes the ridges--a non-ridged closed-cell pad of the same thickness would be much warmer.

BTW2, closed-cell pads used to be available in 1/2 inch thickness. Nowdays, many of them seem to only be available in 3/8 thickness.

Doug

 

[DougPaul]

Nope, inflated goes down first. It seems counter-intuitive, what with the closed cell being puncture-proof. But, someone with a heck of lot more experience than I pointed out that it's warmer if the inflated is first. I tried it, and yup - he was right.

Theoretically (with no weight on the pads), it shouldn't make any difference. However, with weight on the pads, the closed-cell on the top might spread one's weight and thus have less compression-induced loss of insulation in the inflatable. (Perhaps the best ordering might be closed-cell pad to the bumpier side. )

Have never tried closed on top of inflatable myself...

Just noticed your post, Doug. I believe you can get thicker pads from MEC. I got one from them a few years back - 3/4" - made of Ensolite, which is more resistent to UV rays. Very warm, very durable.

Thanks. Not looking for myself--I have a 1/2in pad from the days when they were the standard. Was just noting that most closed cell foam pads available these days are a potentially inadequate 3/8s in thick.

Ensolite was much heavier than some of the newer foams. The white ensolite, after it had aged a bit, would get very brittle below ~0F and break into lots of small pieces. (Happened to one of the party members on that -30F night...) Green ensolite was ok in the cold, but even heavier. Don't know if there have been any changes since then (mid 70's).

Doug

 

[sli74]

Nope, inflated goes down first. It seems counter-intuitive, what with the closed cell being puncture-proof. But, someone with a heck of lot more experience than I pointed out that it's warmer if the inflated is first. I tried it, and yup - he was right.

Well, I will have to give this a try because i have always done it the other way but worth a test if it works better. Thanks,

sli74

 

[KMartman]

Well, I will have to give this a try because i have always done it the other way but worth a test if it works better. Thanks,

sli74

Same here....Mmmm new information...

M

 

[ripple]

I will be trying that layout, first chance. Anybody else getting antzy for winter?

 

[KMartman]

ummm im a skier so..YES....

M

 

[KMartman]

matter of fact...its ALREADY winter somewhere and that somewhere isn't too far away....

Don't know about cross posting here, but i'll do it this time. I'm usually won't do this, but someone turned this into sort of a winter STOKE...so...

check it

thought at least some would dig this...WISH I WAS THERE

M

 

[Chip]

I was just talking to my youngest last night about this;
"It's almost time to get out there, again..."
No problemo.

 

[Y.L.]

Placing the closed cell on top of the inflatable to be warmer make sense to me. I would think that it is because the inflatable if filled with cold humid air. Hence, it is better to have it as far as possible from the body. But it is less comfortable. I would do that only if I expect to be cold.

The RidgeRest is the closed cell that has the highest R-Value (2.6) from the ones sold at MEC.

I was using an old blue thin closed cell with an Ultralite. I think the Ultralite is R2.3 and 790g (not sure about those specs). The ProLite 4 is R3.2 and 680g (lighter and warmer). I think the Downmat 7 (R4.9 and 910g) with a RidgeRest would be a bit overkill (heavy) and I wouldn't use an inflatable alone. Also, I will use the ProLite 4 all seasons.

Thanks for all your info.

Yves

 

[sardog1]

And now for something completely different.

1. Count me in the Thermarest on top, closed cell on bottom crowd. (Looks like I might not be part of a crowd anymore on this one ...) The Thermarest has air that circulates; that's how it gets thick and thin as needed. Now imagine that circulating air placed next to your (seasonally) cold-hearted Mother, all whilst she is trying to suck the life-sustaining heat from your body. (Just couldn't pass up a chance to use "whilst." ) Doesn't it make more sense instead to keep the circulating air sandwiched between your body and the non-circulating air in the closed-cell pad? Won't this reduce cooling of the circulating air, compared with the Thermarest on bottom regime? (There's got to be a thesis topic in here somewhere for a physics or engineering student.)

2. Every time I've wrestled an Exped Downmat back into its bag in the store, I've thought to myself, "Self, the last thing you want to be doing is wrasslin' one of these under a bright, cerulean sky at the very coldest part of the day, i.e., when your feet want to be movin', not standin' around. And Self, you could buy a whole lot o'Ensolite with the money you'll save."