DWR in a spray can: SCAM???

[Remix]

After this weekend's rain, I thought I would pose this question. I sprayed my goretex shell with the can stuff they sell at EMS last Sunday, put it on a hanger, and let it stink up the basement until Thursday. So it had 3-4 days of curing time.

Leaving Zealand Hut in a moderate rain on Saturday, I noticed the water beading on my jacket like it should. But before I was even out of the forest and on Zealand Road, my shell was soaked clear through to the point where you could see the mesh netting through certain parts of the sleeves. (My new goretex pants worked wonderfully, however.)

On Zealand Road, without the benefit of a pine canopy, something new started to happen...I got suds coming dripping down my sleeves. This undoubtedly was the DWR, 'cuz the shell was dry-cleaned 3 months ago.

PS. I used to have the dry cleaner apply DWR, but now they tell me they no longer do that due to environmental regulations.

Does the stuff in the spray can work for you? If not, what do you use?

 

[LittleBear]

I was under the impression that you should NEVER dry clean Gore Tex. That in so doing, you destroy its ability to keep you dry and its breathe-ability. I always wash my Gore Tex in "Tech Wash" and have used the wash-in waterproofing with great success.

 

[NYBRAD]

Let me guess. It's a NorthFace Jacket? TNF has the worst DWR finish on the market. I use the Nikwax wash in. It seems to work on some of my shells for a short time. Ironing it with a warm iron can help as well. Try sending it back. Sometimes you win, sometimes you won't. Good luck.

 

[Rick]

My experience was the same - Used 1/2 can to find out it didn't work.
I just toss it in a dryer for 10 minutes on a warm cycle now - works as well as the spraycrap.
PS anybody want halfacan?

 

[Remix]

Actually the shell is an EMS one, but it looks very similar to TNF summit series. Its 5 years old. As for dry cleaning, I followed the instructions on the label which stated dry cleaning is fine as long as you request a "clear, distilled solvent rinse". The dry cleaners knew exactly what that was.

If you have a source saying that dry cleaning destroys goretex, post a link to it, and I'll change my ways.

As far TNF gear goes, my only observation was that I was wearing TNF shell pants (new), and they worked great.

 

[LittleBear]

Remix: The only source I have is the one that came with my GoreTex jacket - made by Mountain Hardware. The care instructions say to avoid dry cleaning. The salesman where I bought the jacket told me that dry cleaning would destroy its ability to keep me dry and the fabric's breathe-ability.

However, I have done a search on the web and found some sites saying you could dry clean Gore Tex with a clear, distilled solvent and other sites saying "avoid dry cleaning."

My husband has a lighter weight Gore Tex jacket he bought at LL Bean and he brought it to the dry cleaners before I realized it. Since then, it has not kept him dry (but maybe they didn't use a clear distilled solvent). I tried to revitalize it both with the spray on and wash-in waterproofing, but with no success.

Given the cost of dry cleaning (and sometimes the inconvenience of it), I'm very happy when I buy clothing that tells me I can machine (or hand) wash it.

 

[Pete_Hickey]

The only source I have is the one that came with my GoreTex jacket - made by Mountain Hardware. The care instructions say to avoid dry cleaning. The salesman where I bought the jacket told me that dry cleaning would destroy its ability to keep me dry and the fabric's breathe-ability.

GoreTex is not a product. Rather, it is a process by which materials can be put together. There is a face fabric, which is bound to the teflon-like material. There may be another face fabric on the other side if it is 3 ply GoreTex.

IThe face fabric gives most of the charastics to the material. It may be Nylon, it may be polyester... each one with their own charastics. Some may be able to be dry cleaned, some may not. There is no one 'Goretex' fabric for which all rules apply.

For example, my MEC coat says to wash with powder detergent (not liquid) and dry in a hot dryer. This is not always the case, but it is for the MEC coat I have.

 

[dave.m]

The customer service departments of the manufactures that I've spoken to about this (TNF and Patagonia) both suggest washing with powdered detergent on a gentle cycle. The Gore web site suggests machine washing with either powder or liquid. (See http://tinyurl.com/2w5lk and poke around.) The folks at Patagonia I've spoken with told me that liquid detergents have something like fabric softening agents in them that conflict with the DWR and that fail to rinse out as well, hence their pref for powdered detergents.

The tag on my current Patagonia shell, it calls for powdered detergent. It also says that if you dry clean it, you must ask for "a clear distillate rinse process". I've no idea why.

I'm not a big fan of DWRs and think they are more emotional trouble than their worth. Reminds me of a customer we had in a bike shop I used to work at who obsessed so much about having perfectly true wheels (no wobbles) that we had to talk him into putting fenders on them so he couldn't see the minute wobbles in his wheels.

The waterproofness of GoreTex rides entirely on the Gore laminate and has absolutely nothing to do with the DWR. All the DWR will do is delay (not stop) the outer fabric from getting soaked through. And all this will do is keep the jacket breathing better and weighing less. But you have to be a coniseur of sweat to notice this.

Jackets always take more direct hits from rain than pants do, so it is no surprise that your pants fared better than your jacket. Remember, Gtx is sweaty stuff and it was 100% humidity in NH this weekend. Even if your jacket was totally soaked inside and out, it could be that the GoreTex was performing perfectly.

IMO, there is only one thing that matters with Gtx. Does it leak? Personally, I can't tell if I'm in the field because I sweat too much and windblown rain is running down my neck and wrists. My advice is to put on a long sleeved cotton t-shirt (black is great for this), put on the jacket and get in your shower. Stand under the shower for a bit and carefully take off the jacket by holding on to the sleeve ends. Look for wetness on the lining and on your t-shirt. If you get wet, the jacket is leaking and you may be able to ca$h in on the warranty.

Hope this helps

 

[Remix]

Thanks for all your comments. I think I have found my solution: a $1.37 poncho from walmart for those in-between days. I'll keep it in my pack just like the pack rain cover.

 

[mushroomman]

Gore-Tex

Pete,
Gore-tex is a product of W.L. Gore Inc., and is a registered trademark. There are a few other fabrics that are somewhat the same but .. are not gore-tex. Their were some tests done that i saw and i dont remember where, but the test came to the conclusion that Gore-Tex was better than its competitors by a large percentage. Wish i could remember where i saw it.
Regards Steveo

 

[Pete_Hickey]

Re: Gore-Tex

Pete,
Gore-tex is a product of W.L. Gore Inc., and is a registered trademark. There are a few other fabrics that are somewhat the same but .. are not gore-tex.

I was talking about GoreTex. Yes it is a product of Gore, but there are many variations of it.

Here is one place that gives a fair amount of information:

http://www.mec.ca/Main/articles_main.jsp?FOLDER<>folder_id=642183&bmUID=1073445383488

Check out the 'about GoreTex' and the Face fabric parts.

 

[oldhiker]

Direct from the GoreTex website

http://www.gore-tex.com/webapp/wcs/...001&catalogId=10001&langId=-1&productId=10087

 

[CatskillsYeti]

For what it's worth, I care for my EMS 3-ply Gore-Tex expedition shell as follows: machine wash warm, separately, and hang to dry. The care instructions allow machine drying, but because we use fabric softener strips in the dryer (I hate them, but wife insists!), I want to avoid the residue - and there's plenty of that, for those who think they might be avoiding it by not having a strip in the dryer.

I don't think I would dry clean any Gore-Tex product.