Ellen/Abraham...VT

[JustJoe]

Planning on doing these 2 Saturday. We could do 2 cars but may opt for an out and back. Mohammed's site has been a great resource for me. I just (without a map handy) can't see how an out and back can have less elev. gain than a traverse. 1600' vs 2300'. Re-climbing everything would suggest it should have more. Do the numbers like right to anyone who's done both a traverse and or the out and back?

http://home.earthlink.net/~ellozy/vt-4000-footer.html#tocref5

Thanks

 

[peakbagger]

The climb up from the north end (Appalachian Gap) to Ellen is more elevation gain than on the southern end (Lincoln Gap) to Abraham. You get to skip this climb if you do the traditional out and back hike from Lincoln gap. That saves 670 feet. I have done both the out and back and the car spot. They both eat up the same amount of time when the car spots are factored in.

General comments is that the trail is closer to a woods road than a trail for much of its length. There is zero water along the ridge although there can be mud due to poor drainage, bring extra. Think a combination of the Lincoln Woods trail and the lower bondcliff trail except far less elevation. The car spot is long and during leaf season is longer. Unless you travel very early, plan on very slow traffic getting to the trailhead the goal of the state of VT during leaf season is to get the traffic as slow as possible in hopes tourist will stop and buy something. Car Nav systems tend to default to major state roads making trips even longer, there are major timesavings if you use some of the seasonal roads that go east west but this approach is best done with Delorme Gazeteer. Much of the trail on the ridgeline is in spruce/fir. That's a plus if its windy but the downside there are less views then one would expect. Parking at Lincoln Gap fills up early, you may have to walk a long way uphill to the actual trailhead.

Due to the short days, more than a few folks end up running out of daylight. Its not a bad trail to follow with a headlamp but check your batteries and expect that you may end up encountering folks woefully underequipped including a lack of headlamps or any other way of finding their way after dark except by the light of their cell phone.

 

[BobC]

The climb up from the north end (Appalachian Gap) to Ellen is more elevation gain than on the southern end (Lincoln Gap) to Abraham. You get to skip this climb if you do the traditional out and back hike from Lincoln gap. That saves 670 feet. I have done both the out and back and the car spot. They both eat up the same amount of time when the car spots are factored in.

General comments is that the trail is closer to a woods road than a trail for much of its length. There is zero water along the ridge although there can be mud due to poor drainage, bring extra. Think a combination of the Lincoln Woods trail and the lower bondcliff trail except far less elevation. The car spot is long and during leaf season is longer. Unless you travel very early, plan on very slow traffic getting to the trailhead the goal of the state of VT during leaf season is to get the traffic as slow as possible in hopes tourist will stop and buy something. Car Nav systems tend to default to major state roads making trips even longer, there are major timesavings if you use some of the seasonal roads that go east west but this approach is best done with Delorme Gazeteer. Much of the trail on the ridgeline is in spruce/fir. That's a plus if its windy but the downside there are less views then one would expect. Parking at Lincoln Gap fills up early, you may have to walk a long way uphill to the actual trailhead.

Due to the short days, more than a few folks end up running out of daylight. Its not a bad trail to follow with a headlamp but check your batteries and expect that you may end up encountering folks woefully underequipped including a lack of headlamps or any other way of finding their way after dark except by the light of their cell phone.

Thanks, good to have this info - I'm doing this hike with Joe. Got my two headlamps as usual and will bring plenty of water. Sounds like the out-and-back is the best option.

 

[bikehikeskifish]

FWIW, I did it out-and-back from Lincoln Gap in 2011 and recorded 11.6 miles, 3875 feet, 6:30 using my GPS.

Tim

 

[JustJoe]

FWIW, I did it out-and-back from Lincoln Gap in 2011 and recorded 11.6 miles, 3875 feet, 6:30 using my GPS.

Tim

Now I don't know what to think, because that's what I would have expected it to be.

 

[peakbagger]

I pulled that data from a bad source. Lincoln gap is only about 80 feet higher than Appalachian gap. The climb up From Appy gap is steeper to Ellen than Abraham due to a steeper slope. The climb up Abraham from Lincoln is less steep. From there the ridge doesnt have much net slope, about 400 feet totalfrom the low point to the top point in 3 1.4 miles. I don't tend to really pay attention too much about small "bumps" along a ridge and do dislike steep descents so that's why I recommend the out and back. The trail between Ellen and Appy gap is far rockier than the walk up Abraham from Lincoln.

No matter what, I am nowhere in the league of Tim's time

 

[BobC]

Now I don't know what to think, because that's what I would have expected it to be.

I believe the info on Mohammed's site (which has been very valuable to me over the years) is incorrect when it says 1600' to do the out and back from Lincoln Gap. Obviously Tim's GPS info backs this up.

Another reason I'm doubting it: the info on this page says that to do Abraham alone via the Battell trail and the LT is 2500' of gain. But then it also says that to do Abraham and Ellen via the Battell trail and LT is also 2500' of gain. Clearly that can't be correct; it's not flat between Abraham and Ellen. So I'm thinking this miscalculation is also what leads to the incorrect listing of 1600' of gain for the round trip.

http://home.earthlink.net/~ellozy/vt-4000-footer.html#tocref5

 

[ChrisB]

Planning on doing these 2 Saturday. We could do 2 cars but may opt for an out and back.

No one has mentioned this, but after bagging Ellen, you can bail down a ski trail to the base of Sugarbush North. Saves miles and is a good place for a car spot.

cb

 

[JustJoe]

No one has mentioned this, but after bagging Ellen, you can bail down a ski trail to the base of Sugarbush North. Saves miles and is a good place for a car spot.

cb

Thanks. May consider that.

 

[chipc]

Also FWIW, I'm a slight bit faster than "book time" in the Whites and when I did Ellen and Abraham out-and-back from Lincoln Gap in 2010, I was at 7 hours. And that was with ample photo stops. I remember it as a fairly easy hike compared to other hikes of similar elevation gain and mileage.

 

[bikehikeskifish]

Here is a track by member KPMMBM that pretty closes matches mine:

http://www.wikiloc.com/wikiloc/view.do?id=6666606

11.7 miles
3264 feet

Tim

 

[JustJoe]

Thanks for all the info. Think we've decided to do the traverse and dive down the ski trails after Ellen.

 

[rup]

We descended the ski trails at GE (interesting to see in summer w/o snow) and got a ride back to SB from a GE worker getting off shift. Lucky?

There was some confusion at the top of the SB chair as to where the trail to GE started (at least on that day). We started down (ie to the N) a ski slope thinking that we would eventually find an entrance to the the LT on our L before the ski trail turned R and steeply down (it was a double diamond, so obvious) - looked like a plan from the ski area map. However, we quickly heard folks on the real trail heading S on our L, and popped thru the woods (~20 yards) to regain the trail and continue onto GE. I don't recall any 'road' conditions, but do recall more minor 'summit bumps' along the way than the map suggested.

 

[JustJoe]

Thanks for all the info. Think we've decided to do the traverse and dive down the ski trails after Ellen.

This is what we ended up doing. I recorded 9.1 miles and about 2700' in gain. I can't believe we almost believed the numbers for the out and back from Lincoln Gap were going to only be 1600'.

Thanks for the smack in the face Tim.