ems -40 bag- i need opinion

[hikerfast]

this thing is selling at ems for 390 bucks. this is half the price of other -40 bags i have seen. im wondering if this thing has been made too cheap or if it would be fine. any opinions??

 

[Guinness]

I guess my question is where are you going that needs a -40° bag? Seems a bit over kill in the Northeast. I've taken my -25° only once which was to the VFTT Winter Gathering in Junuary 2004 where the temps did get down to -35° and that was almost an overkill. I have always felt a -5° is more than capable in this area of the country.

 

[hikerfast]

im glad you responded. thank you for your input. from what ive experienced and heard you want a bag that is 20 degrees beyond its 'rating' to really keep you warm. the consensus seems to be that these 'ratings' will keep you alive, not necessarily warm. a lot depends on how the person sleeps. i want a bag that will keep me warm in all northeast conditions, i dont want to have to cancel a trip.

 

[sapblatt]

another nation heard from...

I find that my 20 degree bag is inadequate when it is 30 degrees out. If it is that cold I find myself wearing fleece, socks and a hat to bed, and sometimes gloves. At home I am a very hot sleeper...so I would err on the conservative side here...minus 40 may be overkill, but minus 5 may be trouble IMHO (which has never camped in the winter...)

 

[Guinness]

I know the rating systems often are not a true indicator for everyone. I normally push sleeping bag ratings another -15°. For example, I still only use base underwear in my -5° bag when it is -20°. Beyond that I'll add another layer. I have also been with people that base the ratings exactly the opposite, add 20°, where a -40° should be a -20° as you have pointed out. I guess the best way is to rent one, (EMS?) and test it out before you spend the bucks. You may not like the compression, since some models do not fit the pack very well.

If you have the bucks, I would suggest Feathered Friends and the Peregrine model. Working with them, you will get exectly a bag to fit you and the quality is superior.

 

[Chip]

here's the specs on my -40 bag (Valandre Nuptse, now called Odin)

Fabric (outer/inner): Pertex P669RS / Pertex P666
Down quality: Goose 95/5; 850 cuin +
Down load: 1150 g. (40.5 oz)
Total weight: 1750 g. (3.85 lb)

I don't see down load listed on the EMS bag, but at 800-fill down, 12 inch of loft and a little heavier total weight, it seems to add up correctly to be a comparable bag.
See if you can find out the down load. Assuming the shells weigh about the same you may be looking at about 50 oz's of fill. It'll be PLENTY warm. Better warm than wishing you were, I say.

 

[el-bagr]

FWIW, I have a TNF -20 synthetic bag (TNF Tundra, $239 but we got 'em for $100). Coldest we've been tenting in them is -42 F (Quebec). Coldest we've slept out in them (leanto) was -24 F; we were very cold on both of those nights.

I thus believe that there can be a place for cold-rated sleeping bags among New England campers.

 

[SherpaKroto]

Well FWIW, guinness is nuts (just kidding - Ed and I are good friends!!!!). For my use anyway, I like the extra 10 degrees of comfort. That might explain why guinness's backpack weighs in around 30 lbs when mine is well over 45 Guinness is a hardier soul than most of us - I've seen it first hand often.

IMHO a -40F is a bit overkill in the northeast, unless you plan some extreme trips, or are a very cold sleeper. I waver between my 0F and -30F during the winter. On short trips in moderate temps, the 0F is what I use. If it's a multi night trip where I could be away from man made shelter (and end up in my tarp tent if benighted) I always go with my -30F.

 

[hikerfast]

thank you for all this input.
i hike hot but maybe i sleep cold. usually im warm when i turn in, then around 2 am i wake up cold. im aware of all the 'hot water bottle and big meal' and all that, but id rather just be able to sleep. i got a slumberjack expedition 600 back in 85 rated to -30, took it out in 0 temps, and was fine. i took it out in -20, with an ems 20 bag inside it, and woke up at 2 am cold. i took the ems 20 bag out when it was about 35 on whiteface summit one fall, and was cold at 2m. it seems like i need a bag rated 20 degrees colder, at least. im just wondering if for half the usual price i am getting a bag with quality stuff in it with the -40. i assume that a -40 bag should keep me warm at -15.

 

[errapi]

Would a synthetic 0F bag be a good choice for winter backpacking in NH, and just bring a bag liner for the nights when it gets below 10F??

I ask because I have an EMS Tundra 0 that I haven't yet used on nights colder than 20F. I wasn't too warm in 20F either... but I still was able to fall asleep.

 

[the starchild]

just my 2cents

hello all,

just my 2 cents.

i have been cold in my 20degree bag when its 30 and warm in the same bag when its 15. A LOT depends on lots of other factors besides the bag itself like your sleeping pad, what you ate, what you are wearing, where you are sleeping, humidity as well as the difference in daytime and nighttime temps.

last month you could be hiking in daytime temps in the 70's and then slept in lows in the 30's or 40's inwhich a 40 bag would have little hope of keeping you wrong cuz our bodies have trouble coping with a 40 degree temp difference. this is why i haven't bought a 40 degree "summer bag". in the whites, even in summer, a 20 bag may be necessary as the lows could only be in the 40's or even 50's, but after being above treeline all day in the 90's, your body needs more help keeping warm and a 40bag might not cut it.

i am just trying to point out that we may all be comparing more apples to oranges with our individual stories. hope this was useful

 

[cbcbd]

I say get the -40. My girlfriend has the -20 bag and loves it. The Pertex shell sheds water nicely and I'm happy with the build quality.

As for the temperature rating, it's all really up to you. I have no problems sleeping in my 15 degree bag in negative digits and my girlfriend gets cold in her -20 bag when the temperature is in the single digits.

 

[Guinness]

Synthetic versus Down. Now there is a controversy worth discussing. Both are needed and have their place, but in winter conditions below 0°, I have a very strong opinion that down should only be used. I have 14 sleeping bags (don't ask why) with many temperature ranges in synthetic, down with a variety of shells.

Down provides the best warmth, and if lofted properly, out performs synthetic hands down. I use both nylon shell and Pertex Shell bags and I have never had wetness problems in over 25 years.

Water bottles - forget it. I use to use hot water bottles inside a bottle jacket in my bag. Good for the first 3-4 hours then useless. However. I do carry a large 12-24 hour chemical heat pad (one for each planned night) for emergencies which I have had to use once.

 

[Rick]

Hikerfast,
I have posted this on other forums and I'll weigh in here with strong anecdotal comments, if it helps.

I have a 1983 EMS Robson Long -25d Down bag that still works well to temps at -20 (first hand experience with a minimum registering thermometer in a 3P tent .

In 1999, I bought a new -5 EMS down bag, saving my 20 some year old EMS bag for the really cold nights (and used the excuse that I needed to get one for my wife).

I have been very happy with my EMS bags and although the old bag loses a few down fluffs every trip, it is made of plain old nylon and 550 fill, but it is a quality bag. The new bag is even better and lighter with Pertex and 650 fill!!!

The bags are also cut a little big in the event if you want to wear something to bed.

In addition, these bags also have a differential cut so that, meaning the inner bag is smaller than the outer bag so that when you push against the inner walls of the sleeping bag, you won't compress the down (All good bags have this bag within a bag differential cut feature).

If you are looking for a bag to last many, many years, I would suggest down and I would say you are probably OK with a -20 bag max (remember you will likely have a tent or bivy sack and some spare clothes, that should help)
When it gets colder than that, I stay out of the woods anyway.

 

[sli74]

I have slept in a synthetic -40 degree bag and was chilly at -10 so I for one know from experience that a -40 degree bag is NOT overkill for me in the Northeast where I often spend COLD nights outside backpacking or even just car camping in the winter. Now I am going to eventually get a WM down bag and am getting a -20 degree because in my experience down bags and particularly the WM down bags are more truw to their rating.

I say decide on a bag temp based on how your body reacts . . . I have never owned an EMS bag but have heard good things about it. Good Luck and let us know how it works out if you decide to buy it.

sli74

 

[Neil]

I have 14 sleeping bags

OMG, Guiness Do you have one for every 5 degree temp increment or what?
Let me see, how many do I have...only 4 and one is dead.

 

[DougPaul]

EMS Mountain Light -40
I have one--IMO, a decent bag:

weight 4lb 11oz,
user height 6ft
Shoulder girth 65in
loft: 12in (my measurement).
Pertex shell,
47.64 oz (from label) 800 cu-in/oz goose down
draft collar, draft tube

I haven't used it in real cold yet, but I have used an EMS Dhaulagiri (-40 rating, 10 in loft) on a night that was below -30F and was fine. The Mountain Light -40 looks like a better bag to me.

And I think a -40 bag is appropriate for the colder nights in the Whites.


Didn't we just have this same discussion about the EMS Mountain Light -20F? The design of the 2 bags is pretty similar.

Doug

 

[hikerfast]

dougpaul, thanks for the direct response to the question. i was hoping to run into someone who had actually used the bag. do you typically sleep hot or cold? OF COURSE i just went down there and the 20 percent sale is over. i went into a place with a sale that said '50 percent taken off at register'. i went up there and they cut the bag in half and said 'here is your 50 percent' bah!

 

[DougPaul]

dougpaul, thanks for the direct response to the question. i was hoping to run into someone who had actually used the bag. do you typically sleep hot or cold?

Probably average to slightly cool, although I did have to forceably eject an insulated hot water bottle one night--0 deg bag, 28F temp.

The bag did pass the "break into a sweat when testing indoors" test...

At temps below 0F, it is _very_ easy to dump excess heat by venting. I'd just as soon have a bit of extra warmth in my bag and get a good night's sleep rather than try to sleep on the edge.

Doug

 

[hikerfast]

i couldnt agree more about making sure you are warm enough rather than chancing it. . i remember the ems dhaulugiri in the early 80's, 40 below bag. 5 pounds 12 oz. 550 fill. they stopped making it, and when i asked why, they said everybody who wanted a bag that good had bought one, and they lasted forever so the demand was gone. its interesting to see ems selling a -40 bag again. i also saw a -20 'mt washington' bag at beans...regularly 200 on sale for 150. im browsing more sites as we speak