End of an Era

[bandana4me]

On Thursday, Marley and I set out for our morning walk. I had decided the night before to go to the Carters or Moriah. I never decide until I start driving down the road where exactly we will end up hiking. I knew that going in that direction would eliminate some time from our walk but I felt it would be worth it. As I drove out on route 2, I slowed down at the Appalachia parking lot. Low and behold only 1 vehicle in the lot!!!! Blue sky and a hard snow-pack made me turn quickly into the parking area. Just can't pass up a day like this. We hiked up valley way. As I approached the Upper Bruin, I could not resist putting om the 12-points and playing.

I purchased the Cassin 12-point crampons in either '81 or '82 (memory is first to go). They had served me quite well and had ALOT of miles on them. Well, in this case the crampons had had enough of hiking and decided to quit on me. The toe binding on my left crampon broke and left me with only my snowshoes for the return trip.

Time to go shopping!!!!

 

[Red Oak]

I still use old school cramps.tie them on with a extra bootlace and go for it!they usually fall off towards the end of the hike if I run down the mountain.what are you going to do?Get some new step in ones?

 

[max]

Before I retired and moved out here to Arizona, I worked for a steel fabrication shop. I had purchased my crampons in 1975 at EMS in Boston and they survived for nearly 30 years with some judicious weld repairs in a couple of spots. Now I can get by with Yak Trax for the odd icy section of Grand Canyon south rim trail. That, along with the scattered mule poop (which affords nice traction...thanks guys!) is sufficient for the moment.

 

[DougPaul]

I purchased the Cassin 12-point crampons in either '81 or '82 (memory is first to go). They had served me quite well and had ALOT of miles on them. Well, in this case the crampons had had enough of hiking and decided to quit on me. The toe binding on my left crampon broke and left me with only my snowshoes for the return trip.

If only the binding is broken, it can generally be replaced...

I still have several pairs of old crampons with neoprene strap bindings, including my Chouinard rigid ice-climbing crampons. The old strap bindings, while slower to put on and off, are less likely to fall off at critical moments than are clip-ons.

Doug

 

[sierra]

If only the binding is broken, it can generally be replaced...

I still have several pairs of old crampons with neoprene strap bindings, including my Chouinard rigid ice-climbing crampons. The old strap bindings, while slower to put on and off, are less likely to fall off at critical moments than are clip-ons.

Doug

I spent many years in the Chouinard hinged model, always carried my little baggy of hex screws and alen wrench. A few years ago, I helped carry a litter from Lions head base down the Shelburne ski trail, the weight and tourqing of the carry demolished my crampons. I have been on Petzel step ins since then, or ahem micro-spikes ( which I still dont like). If I were to replace my Petzels ( and I might next year) I would choose a model that has a strap system. If my Petzel bail comes off ( has twice in 10 yrs) they will fall off my feet, the strap system provides a valuable back up to the bail.

 

[DougPaul]

I spent many years in the Chouinard hinged model, always carried my little baggy of hex screws and alen wrench.

Same here, except I had the rigid model.

A few years ago, I helped carry a litter from Lions head base down the Shelburne ski trail, the weight and tourqing of the carry demolished my crampons. I have been on Petzel step ins since then, or ahem micro-spikes ( which I still dont like). If I were to replace my Petzels ( and I might next year) I would choose a model that has a strap system. If my Petzel bail comes off ( has twice in 10 yrs) they will fall off my feet, the strap system provides a valuable back up to the bail.

A crampon coming off on technical terrain is particularly awkward even if you don't actually lose it. (Some clip-in bindings have ankle straps.) Somehow the reliability of strap bindings over clip-in bindings seemed worth the extra time to me...

I view Micro-spikes and Stabilicers as nicer alternatives to instep crampons. Back in the previous era, nailed boots might have been even better on easy mixed terrain. (I suppose that one could view screw-boots as nailed boots with very small nails.)

Doug

 

[bandana4me]

Clarification:

I broke the metal piece that holds the boot in place. It snapped right at the rivet that holds the 2 pieces together on the crampon. I have decided not to try to weld or fix it. I will just get a new pair or first go to IME and check out the consignment shop downstairs. I wish it was just a strap.

 

[skiguy]

If only the binding is broken, it can generally be replaced...

I still have several pairs of old crampons with neoprene strap bindings, including my Chouinard rigid ice-climbing crampons. The old strap bindings, while slower to put on and off, are less likely to fall off at critical moments than are clip-ons.

Doug

Strapon crampons are still in use haevily in the high mountain ranges of the world. At altitude on summit day of Everest a popped crampon is the last thing you want. Some even wrap duck tape around the instep in addition to the straps.

 

[DougPaul]

Clarification:

I broke the metal piece that holds the boot in place. It snapped right at the rivet that holds the 2 pieces together on the crampon. I have decided not to try to weld or fix it. I will just get a new pair or first go to IME and check out the consignment shop downstairs. I wish it was just a strap.

Ahh, yes. Metal can fatigue and weaken and it sounds like you were putting a heavy load on it.

Welding carries the risk that you will damage the temper and unless you know how to avoid the damage or how to restore the temper, you would risk a weakened crampon.

Besides, with new crampons you get a new set of full size teeth...

Doug

 

[Kevin Rooney]

When I read threads like this I sometimes wonder what, if any, role old equipment plays in accidents, injuries and sometimes even death. Like the older fellow who slipped in King's Ravine/Great Gully this winter? It makes you wonder.

I'm not immune to using inappropriate/worn-out gear myself. This winter, while descending rapidly off the Carters, I slipped on ice and nearly broke my ankle. I was wearing Kahtoola microspikes with slightly blunted spikes. I knew they were inferior to Hillsounds, especially when descending, because of a poor heal plate design, but still - I did nothing with that information until it nearly cost me. I limped for the next month. However - I did have a pair of Hillsounds in 2 days (thanks, Amazon) and will never use or recommend Kahtoolas.

And, FWIW - my companions were all wearing Hillsounds.

 

[skiguy]

When I read threads like this I sometimes wonder what, if any, role old equipment plays in accidents, injuries and sometimes even death. Like the older fellow who slipped in King's Ravine/Great Gully this winter? It makes you wonder.

I'm not immune to using inappropriate/worn-out gear myself. This winter, while descending rapidly off the Carters, I slipped on ice and nearly broke my ankle. I was wearing Kahtoola microspikes with slightly blunted spikes. I knew they were inferior to Hillsounds, especially when descending, because of a poor heal plate design, but still - I did nothing with that information until it nearly cost me. I limped for the next month. However - I did have a pair of Hillsounds in 2 days (thanks, Amazon) and will never use or recommend Kahtoolas.

And, FWIW - my companions were all wearing Hillsounds.

Reel it back ten years. Would you have been wearing instep crampons,6 pointers, or a full on crampon instead. The era of the micro spikes/hill sounds or some other non full on crampons vs full on crampons is a tricky line to walk.

 

[Kevin Rooney]

Reel it back ten years. Would you have been wearing instep crampons,6 pointers, or a full on crampon instead. The era of the micro spikes/hill sounds or some other non full on crampons vs full on crampons is a tricky line to walk.

I would have been wearing 6 pointers - Astri-Alpins, to be exact. Still have a couple of pairs in good shape. The thing about the 6 pointers is that you make a conscious effort to walk somewhat flat-footed, as there's no heel-plate. The microspikes allow for a more natural gait.

Am also a big fan of the Hillsound Pros. Have worn them a few times this year when microspikes were sketchy. Haven't worn the G10's in awhile.

 

[sierra]

Same here, except I had the rigid model.


A crampon coming off on technical terrain is particularly awkward even if you don't actually lose it. (Some clip-in bindings have ankle straps.) Somehow the reliability of strap bindings over clip-in bindings seemed worth the extra time to me...

I view Micro-spikes and Stabilicers as nicer alternatives to instep crampons. Back in the previous era, nailed boots might have been even better on easy mixed terrain. (I suppose that one could view screw-boots as nailed boots with very small nails.)

Doug

Exactly my point, I lossed a crampon doing a solo traverse of a steep and run-out snowslope in CO and while it was still dangling from my ankle, that provided very little comfort at the time. Luckely, I grew up on " Climbing Ice" from Yvon C. and I was able to cut some steps, drive my tool home clip into it and reattach my crampon. The strap system will be a desciding factor in my next crampon. I was looking at Hillshounds, but Im concerned that not bomb-proof enough for me. BD, Petzel, Grivels those brands are tough to kill, that being said, the weight and actual principal behind Hillshound makes them a consideration.

 

[DougPaul]

I was looking at Hillshounds, but Im concerned that not bomb-proof enough for me. BD, Petzel, Grivels those brands are tough to kill, that being said, the weight and actual principal behind Hillshound makes them a consideration.

I have a pair of Hillsound Pros, but they are designed to be light weight rather than rugged. While the crampons fit on the soles of my winter boots, the straps are too short. They will fit my 3-season boots.

I have several old pairs of crampons that are much sturdier (and heavier).

Doug

 

[DougPaul]

When I read threads like this I sometimes wonder what, if any, role old equipment plays in accidents, injuries and sometimes even death. Like the older fellow who slipped in King's Ravine/Great Gully this winter? It makes you wonder.

I'm not immune to using inappropriate/worn-out gear myself. This winter, while descending rapidly off the Carters, I slipped on ice and nearly broke my ankle. I was wearing Kahtoola microspikes with slightly blunted spikes. I knew they were inferior to Hillsounds, especially when descending, because of a poor heal plate design, but still - I did nothing with that information until it nearly cost me. I limped for the next month. However - I did have a pair of Hillsounds in 2 days (thanks, Amazon) and will never use or recommend Kahtoolas.

And, FWIW - my companions were all wearing Hillsounds.

In the case of crampons, age isn't the only factor. The metal will last longer than we will with only a bit of care (ie store dry so they don't rust), but the metal can fatigue or break if over stressed. If bent, it will be weakened, particularly if bent back.

Many hikers neglect to keep their crampons sharp--dull crampons can slide on hard ice. (Ice climbers are obsessive about keeping their crampons and tools sharp and may even carry a file on a long climb.) Tools like microspikes reduce the need to use one's crampons on easy mixed ice and rock (which will dull the points).

Sometimes crampons need to be replaced because the points become too short to sharpen...

And, of course, choosing the right tool for the terrain tends to reduce the probability of a fall.

Doug

 

[DougPaul]

I will just get a new pair or first go to IME and check out the consignment shop downstairs.

A suggestion: buy new (for safety). You cannot tell if used crampons have fatigued metal.

Doug

 

[DougPaul]

I still use old school cramps.tie them on with shoestring and go for it!they usually fall off towards the end of the hike[or when i needed them].what are you going to do?Get some new step in ones?

Make sure the crampons fit properly* and use good bindings. People have died when their crampons fell off at inopportune moments...

As noted in other posts, step-ins are not necessarily more secure--particularly on flexible boots.

* Instructions on how to fit crampons:
1) flexible boots require flexible crampons
2) the crampon should stay on the boot without the straps (just holding the boot up in the air).
3) there are a variety of binding systems. See http://www.rei.com/learn/expert-advice/crampons-snow-ice-climbing.html
Also in Freedom of the Hills

The REI link has info on choosing crampons and binding systems.

Doug

 

[bandana4me]

Kevin brings up a good point, it played on my mind hard as I hiked down. I have a very bad habit of running downhill on hikes. It started, I think somewhere in the mid 70's, my buddies and I used to do what we termed "The Tennessee Boogie". We would go downhill as fast as we could without touching any dirt (if possible), you had to stay on rocks or roots, which as you know can be quite dangerous in wet weather. Even though I hike alone (well since the introduction on my dog Marley 6 years ago, he always goes with me now), I still have a habit of doing the Tennessee boogie, or in snow covered trails, just a continuous run down the mountain (much easier in snow, no rocks or roots...a fast track you might say), On Tuesday, I ran down the Mt. Kinsman trail and as stated above my crampon blew out on Thursday. It makes wonder what would have happened if the crampon blew out on the run down. Will it make me stop? Hell no!!!! Can't change now I'm to OLD !!!!!!!!

 

[TEO]

I still use old school cramps.tie them on with shoestring and go for it!they usually fall off towards the end of the hike[or when i needed them].what are you going to do?Get some new step in ones?

I was taught that when using strap-on crampon crampons, you should re-tighten the straps about 15 minutes or so after you've first put them on and started using them--similar to re-torquing the lug nuts after a tire rotation.

You're not really using shoestrings are you?

 

[Kevin Rooney]

I was taught that when using strap-on crampon crampons, you should re-tighten the straps about 15 minutes or so after you've first put them on and started using them--similar to re-torquing the lug nuts after a tire rotation.

This is a given with neoprene. I've found the nylon straps also need re-tightening, but not within such a short time frame as neoprene.