Enhancing the view in Carrigan Notch

[Mattl]

OK, so I realize this thread is going to have a lot of people on either side of it, but I still would like to ask the question and point out the benifits. Carrigan Notch, in my opinion, is the wildest notch in the White Mountains, and is rugged and rough, and I love that about it. The only thing I would like to (tweak) is to being able to see the view just a little more. The view of of Mt Lowell is spectacular and has been growing in pretty good over the years. I dont think doing a bit of brushwork and taking a couple trees with destroy the wild qualities of it. Since it is right on the border of the Pemi, using an axe to take a few of the new spruce down to open it up a little bit would make the view so much nicer. Walking into the woods in that are you can see the FS or someone had cut some of the trees down in the past, so maybe its time to get back out there. I know people are going to bring up the fact that taking a few trees down for a view is selfish and all this, and the thing is, I love that area as much as everyone, and want 0 development of anything, or changing besides enhancing a small view to apprechiate the impressiveness of what glaciers created. -Mattl

 

[dug]

The problem you are going to get is it's tough to stop just there. You may want a view at a spot, so you chop away. I want one a bit further down the trail, so I chop away. Someone else comes along, and he not only wants to do some clipping in another spot, but also wants to maybe move a few rocks around to get a platform to stand on....

A fourth person hits those peaks, sees all the work, and says "Hey, I want to do that over on XYZ peak..." and it goes on from there.

 

[David Metsky]

No, for the same reasons stated by dug. What you see as an improvement would be seen as a blemish by others. The recovery is impressive by itself.

 

[skiguy]

Matt have you been there in Winter? I would bet this year with all the Snow you might be looking from a higher prespective therefore a better view. I would have to say that deliberate cutting will never happen without some major uproar. Go on up to Signal Ridge and the tower that's where we already have a view.

 

[Mattl]

Valid points, I understand it can get out of control where people cut. I just think the view in Carrigain Notch is unique and different then Signal Ridge. I have always been more impressed looking up at cliffs then down at them. I just think that if enough people decided on something on that and it was a controlled thing, not just anywhere someone decides on a view, then a couple trees could go. -Mattl

 

[HH1]

Mattl,

Of course what you do is your own business.

But I sure as hell wouldn't look for affirmation of a proposed act, illegal never mind highly controversial, on a public forum.

Cliff

 

[jniehof]

I go to see the mountains how they are, and how they change season to season and year to year at Nature's hand. Blowdowns happen, and grow back in. Old viewpoints close and new ones open up. Eagle Lakes are starting to silt shut and turn to bog; I'll miss them when they're gone but I'm not about to go dredging them or digging new ponds where they'd be scenic and appreciated.

If I want to manicure a park, I call up the Charles River Conservancy and ask when their next workday is.

 

[Tom Rankin]

My sentiments exactly!

I go to see the mountains how they are, and how they change season to season and year to year at Nature's hand. Blowdowns happen, and grow back in. Old viewpoints close and new ones open up. Eagle Lakes are starting to silt shut and turn to bog; I'll miss them when they're gone but I'm not about to go dredging them or digging new ponds where they'd be scenic and appreciated.

If I want to manicure a park, I call up the Charles River Conservancy and ask when their next workday is.

Two thumbs up for this post!

 

[skiguy]

It's amazing really to see the difference a 100 years and change has made.

http://www.logginginlincoln.com/default.asp

http://www.logginginlincoln.com/Logging photo album/Logging Photo album/index.html

 

[Mike P.]

While I enjoy the views, I'll wait for a natural occurring blowdown (like the decent view on Mt. Tom & the beginning of a view on Owl's Head) or going in winter where you are taller or in the case of a hardwood forest, no leaves. So I'm against man made changes to the view. The Ethan pond trail in spots gives you that feeling of being on the bottom of a slide. Try Avalanche Pass or Indian Pass in the ADK's for a real case of this feeling

While on South Carter earlier this week, there is enough snow to allow a decent view (a couple of trees in the way) especially if near 6' tall. Guessing that may be the case on Galehead too.

IMO the natural view from Signal Ridge is more rugged than the one from the tower.

 

[Stan]

I don't think Mattl was suggesting that he might quietly do it himslef, just inquiring what others think since he thought it was a reasonable cut with apparently some precedence.

If it is within wilderness boundaries, I guess I would forget about it. If it is outside, I don't particularly object provided it was within reason. I would defer to the judgement of the Forest Service as to what was within reason.

The forest service does a lot of that kind of thinning and prescribed burns and they're not strictly to enhance recreational use. There are scattered feed lots cut in several places in the WMNF.

Lot's not get too snobbish about this stuff ... it'll grow back and the next generation can bicker about it, too.

 

[David Metsky]

But cutting a view on a trailless peak? It doesn't seem to pass basic muster.

 

[skiguy]

I don't think Mattl was suggesting that he might quietly do it himslef, just inquiring what others think since he thought it was a reasonable cut with apparently some precedence.

If it is within wilderness boundaries, I guess I would forget about it. If it is outside, I don't particularly object provided it was within reason. I would defer to the judgement of the Forest Service as to what was within reason.

The forest service does a lot of that kind of thinning and prescribed burns and they're not strictly to enhance recreational use. There are scattered feed lots cut in several places in the WMNF.

Lot's not get too snobbish about this stuff ... it'll grow back and the next generation can bicker about it, too.

It's interesting that there is dialog that supports the idea that J. E. Henrey was the inspiratiion for the formation of the WMNF. I don't think anyone is getting snobbish. It is what it is. Matt I think there is no problem with imagining. Thats why you need to go now and look above the trees. Let's take a look at the recent very Blantant swath that was done on Big Jay just this past year. If everyone took it upon themselves to act in this manner where would we be. All that is happening in this thread is a suggestion of a what if. IMO the community is acting appropriately. National Forest have been established for all of us to enjoy and have input towards there further governing.

 

[forestgnome]

There are many places off the trails where I could see an incredible view through trees. It makes you imagine the view if unobstructed. But the spirit of striving to conserve the forest in as natural a state as possible trumps the desire for such a view, IMO.

happy trails

 

[grouseking]

Areas that appear to be cleared...

Interesting topic... Scrolling through the thousands of pics I have, there are many areas that appear to be cleared to open up the views.

On the Pemi boundary
http://grouseking.phanfare.com/show/external/430520/595899/27622231/file.jpg

North Moose Mtn
http://grouseking.phanfare.com/show/external/423741/586151/27123655/file.jpg

South Moose Mtn
http://grouseking.phanfare.com/show/external/423741/586151/27123807/file.jpg

Gorge Brook Tr, Moosilauke, not sure if this is a true clearing, looks it.
http://grouseking.phanfare.com/show/external/271142/363299/16260442/file.jpg

On the Pemi Wilderness Boundary
http://grouseking.phanfare.com/show/external/155946/195242/9036799/file.jpg

Liberty Tentsite
http://grouseking.phanfare.com/show/external/171696/218785/10055058/file.jpg

Just to name a few.....

And I'm pretty sure that Matt wasn't saying, "lets cut down a bunch of trees just to satisfy my love for the view of Carrigain Notch."

As for that area, I don't know what someone could do. The only time I've walked the trail, it was in May, and I wanted to see more of the notch myself, but I'm not experienced in bushwhacking, so I don't feel comfortable walking into the woods, especially around there. The view from Signal Ridge is definitely stellar, but I think a closer view from below would be quite interesting, and unique to look at. It is an interesting debate, and obviously one people feel strongly about, and it makes me chuckle how much people can get worked up. It is obvious that we have learned from the logging mistakes in the past. Hypothetically, if a view was cut outside the wilderness boundary to get a better view of Carrigain notch, it would be done in a way that wouldn't harm the environment, and it would be aesthetically pleasing, so a hiker might not notice that it looks like it has been cut by humans.

Plus, I'm pretty sure that small cuts are good for wildlife, and anyone familiar with Carrigain Notch knows the abundance of wildlife there! Most moose tracks I've seen in my life...

I'm someone who loves a view, and I wouldn't necessarily reject small patches of open area that overlook a great view, as long as its done as part of a bigger plan, that is good for the forest.

grouseking

 

[Hillwalker]

Source of clearing

Interesting topic... Scrolling through the thousands of pics I have, there are many areas that appear to be cleared to open up the views.

On the Pemi boundary
http://grouseking.phanfare.com/show/external/430520/595899/27622231/file.jpg

North Moose Mtn
http://grouseking.phanfare.com/show/external/423741/586151/27123655/file.jpg

South Moose Mtn
http://grouseking.phanfare.com/show/external/423741/586151/27123807/file.jpg

Gorge Brook Tr, Moosilauke, not sure if this is a true clearing, looks it.
http://grouseking.phanfare.com/show/external/271142/363299/16260442/file.jpg

On the Pemi Wilderness Boundary
http://grouseking.phanfare.com/show/external/155946/195242/9036799/file.jpg

Liberty Tentsite
http://grouseking.phanfare.com/show/external/171696/218785/10055058/file.jpg

Just to name a few.....

And I'm pretty sure that Matt wasn't saying, "lets cut down a bunch of trees just to satisfy my love for the view of Carrigain Notch."

As for that area, I don't know what someone could do. The only time I've walked the trail, it was in May, and I wanted to see more of the notch myself, but I'm not experienced in bushwhacking, so I don't feel comfortable walking into the woods, especially around there. The view from Signal Ridge is definitely stellar, but I think a closer view from below would be quite interesting, and unique to look at. It is an interesting debate, and obviously one people feel strongly about, and it makes me chuckle how much people can get worked up. It is obvious that we have learned from the logging mistakes in the past. Hypothetically, if a view was cut outside the wilderness boundary to get a better view of Carrigain notch, it would be done in a way that wouldn't harm the environment, and it would be aesthetically pleasing, so a hiker might not notice that it looks like it has been cut by humans.

Plus, I'm pretty sure that small cuts are good for wildlife, and anyone familiar with Carrigain Notch knows the abundance of wildlife there! Most moose tracks I've seen in my life...

I'm someone who loves a view, and I wouldn't necessarily reject small patches of open area that overlook a great view, as long as its done as part of a bigger plan, that is good for the forest.

grouseking

The Clearing(s) on Moose Mountain were done by bulldozer in 1968 to access and remove the plane wreckage in 1968

http://www3.gendisasters.com/new-hampshire/2397/hanover,-nh-moose-mountain-plane-crash,-oct-1968

 

[David Metsky]

The one on Moosilauke was cut by the snowmobile club at the snowmobile turnaround in cooperation with Dartmouth (the landowner). We were working with them to give the snowmobilers a place to get a view so they would stop driving to the summit of Moosilauke. We also cut two views on Gorge Brook when we built that trail, again on private land by the landowners.

I don't recall cutting any views on North Moose when we cut that trail. The stuff on South Moose was there from the 1968 crash.

The point is that there are reasons to cut some views and I don't think we should make a blanket statement about not having them. But I can't really see the point of cutting a view on a trailless peak.

 

[NewHampshire]

But I can't really see the point of cutting a view on a trailless peak.

Or in the case of the origional post, a peakless trail .

Brian

 

[skiguy]

The one on Moosilauke was cut by the snowmobile club at the snowmobile turnaround in cooperation with Dartmouth (the landowner). We were working with them to give the snowmobilers a place to get a view so they would stop driving to the summit of Moosilauke. We also cut two views on Gorge Brook when we built that trail, again on private land by the landowners.

I don't recall cutting any views on North Moose when we cut that trail. The stuff on South Moose was there from the 1968 crash.

The point is that there are reasons to cut some views and I don't think we should make a blanket statement about not having them. But I can't really see the point of cutting a view on a trailless peak.

Thankyou for your insight on this Dave. Some perspective from Public vs. Private Lands is always a good thing. "Having a VIEW " is a common denominater for why we all hike....daaa The management of that going forward is something that all of us here hold close to our Hearts. Thankyou Matt for reminding us what a VIEW is all about

 

[el-bagr]

Pack in a folding ladder. Stand on a friend's shoulders. Bring a snowshovel.