Esprit de corps

[hikingfish]

Last winter was my first snowshoeing winter. I was fortunate to find 2 new friends that wanted to do activities with me, even though I wasn't very fast.

They would always do the same mistake though: They would never bring enough gloves and didn't have a waterproof pair either. Their hands would eventually start getting quite cold as you can imagine. I always offered my chemical hand warmers (which they'd never bring along).

This might not be such a big deal for others, but as this was my first active winter, it was to me. Even though I had an extra pair of gloves should something happen to my mitts and I remember thinking at that time that I'd need to be extra careful otherwise I could lose a hand. I figured out later that should the *hit hit the fan, I could always use my feet warmers to warm up my hands.

Anyways, I guess I was willing to sacrifice my security net for my friends. Pretty sure I would of done the same with a stranger too.

 

[xtraterrestrial]

I can recall two instances where the limits of my generosity were exceeded. In the 'dacks, I returned to my high camp from a day hike, to find a party of four who were camped nearby, and had helped themselves to my stove, actually taking it to their campsite. When I went to retrieve it (I was barely in control of my rage), they said they figured I wouldn't mind...wtf??? In the Wind River range, two days from any trailhead, a wacky family group camped within sight and promptly sent someone over to find out if I was treating my water, then bluntly asked for my filter....no way. I figured if they're clueless enough to camp within sight of me in a huge wilderness area, they're clueless enough to clog up my water filter. The way in which someone asks for help would certainly influence the response I would give. The "three stooges effect" should be subject to Darwinism in the absence of a life threatening situation.

 

[MadRiver]

Last winter I and two friends decided to spend the night at Crag Camp. Prior to leaving I mentioned to Pauline that she might want to take my wife’s 0 degree down bag instead of her 25 degree synthetic bag. I repeated this offer several times during our packing phase, which she declined each time.

Fast forward to Crag Camp. Since Pauline arrived well before I did (long story) she was in her bag trying to get warm, which was unsuccessful given her bag’s temperature rating. After changing clothes and starting dinner, I gave her my down bag, along with my warm and dry bomber hat (her only hat was soaking wet from the hike) and spare wool mittens (she had one pair of gloves which were also wet) to warm her up while eating. After dinner we sat around and chatted and enjoyed the sunset on King Ravine.

Come bed time, I let her keep my bag and I slept in hers. Since I already knew the rating of her bag, and I generally sleep warm, I knew the bag would be a little tight, yet warm enough to see me through the night. After all, Pauline was a close friend and I wasn’t going to die if I gave her my bag, so it was no big deal. The next morning we all headed down the mountain.

Now take this scenario but replace Pauline with a total stranger. The hat and gloves are a given. They were spares so I didn’t need them myself for staying warm. Sharing our dinner and even our cognac was a given. Therefore, the bag becomes the central question in this little morality play. Do you give up your bag? Are there conditions that must be met prior to relinquishing your bag to a total stranger? For instance, must that person show signs of hypothermia, or is mere comfort enough? Gee, your bag is warmer than mine, so can I have yours? What are the conditions that must be met for you to give up your bag?

 

[WhiteMTHike]

I recently encountered a large group 40 + seminary students hiking up Washington dressed in their typical uniform of Dockers and white polo shirts with day purses as their only accessory. Lord (pun intended) only knows what would have happened if the weather turned.

This is precisely the type of scenario I mean. If it were one or two, I could have helped them with added clothing or shelter (rain fly). But 40+? There would be nothing I could do but watch in horror as they battled the elements.

What an example of bad leadership this is!

I think if I'd seen this that I would have taken the group leader aside and given him or her a lesson in Hiking 101. Tactfully of course since I'm sure their group leader was probably a clergy person of some sort.

 

[--M.]

The Deer Hunter

When you first mentioned this thread, it was The Deer Hunter I immediately thought of! Wow!

I had two reactions:

One is that of the plot of the film: you dope-slap the fool & see if you can bail him out, perhaps if only with you asking yourself "What's the matter with you?" to get it done.

The second though is that it's not always about me, and maybe the dope will learn something from living through their decisions. Relieved of the onus of saving the young, I then feel free to help or not. Impending danger is of course another matter.

--M

 

[woodstrider]

Been there, done that

I do believe that in matters of life and death, always help. But, sometimes you meet such incredible ******** that you must withhold your help.

Once, I was leading a group of people on a trip to the Adirondacks in Feb. One member offered two of us a ride and then at the day and time he was a no show. We all made the trip, but the leader (that would be me) almost did not make it to her own trip and had to bogart another ride. Two days later this dude wanders into our camp. With out a word of either apoplgy or explaination he joins the group. F***in' weird, and he was totally mentis comp. His stove was broken, had been since night one. So, no I did not offer the use of my own. He should have gone home after that first night. Besides- everyone knows that you do not F over the leader. But if the guy was dying, like I would have jumped right in- assholeness or not.
.

 

[McRat]

The consensus of assistance in survival situations basically comes down to human decency and an understanding of the risks and risk management we take in hiking. I doubt anyone here would not assist in an emergency situation if possible. That's part of what I love about this community.

The rest comes down to how well we suffer fools. I usally am overpacked and try my best to help or educate them when possible. Heck, that's what Fool Scouts is about.

God loves fools. He made oh so many of them...

 

[Grumpy]

The consensus of assistance in survival situations basically comes down to human decency and an understanding of the risks and risk management we take in hiking. I doubt anyone here would not assist in an emergency situation if possible. . . .

The rest comes down to how well we suffer fools. I usally am overpacked and try my best to help or educate them when possible. Heck, that's what Fool Scouts is about.

There is a difference between someone who is a fool and someone who is only ignorant. The fool knows what is right or how to do what's right but chooses not to; the ignorant person simply doesn't know better than to do what he's doing. Ignorance is both correctable and forgiveable. Personally I'm far less persuaded that foolishness is either. Nonetheless, I'll be compassionate in either case if circumstances warrant and my own resources and safety permit doing so without myself acting the fool.

G.

 

[Peakbagr]

I've always had the habit of carrying doubles of stuff: hats, shells, socks, long johns, gloves, other clothing, in case anyone in my party was in need.
There have been many instances when it was necessary, and a few where it was essential.
I think the adages of "paying it forward" and "random acts of kindness" are always the way to go, especially far from a safe haven.

I have given up my back-up gloves, socks and other items when truly necessary, being a little more careful when I've felt its comfort rather than safety. No such consideration applies when it involves my friends or hiking partners, as they'd do the same for me.

Its just good fellowship to look out for each other in the backcountry.

PB

 

[Neil]

I would give a hiker the shirt off my back, except I never wear a shirt.

I remember hiking often with non-hiking friends from the staff residence in the Rockies. They thought I was nuts carrying all those clothes but then were always real glad when I passed 'em all around.

I would help anybody out unless thay were A) real jerks and B) not in danger.
On a winter hike breaking trail up the so-called winter route up Cliff I carried an extra snow-shoe (on my son's pack ) and sure enough, someone's self-destructed irretrievably. I made 100 bucks right there on the spot.