essential equipment

[sierra]

Just a refresher for those out there who are ambitious, but new to winter climbing. I just read a trip report on Mt. Monroe and the poster failed to reach the summit for " lack of grab". I know microspikes are the rage and I know snowshoes now come with crampons ( well sort of crampons) . I think many new winter climbers are relying on these two items for presidential hikes, imho, you need real crampons for many safe ascents, if you cant walk up Monroe in the winter to to lack of grip, your gear is inadequet. Crampons and an ice ax on exposed routes above treeline used to be considered essential, maybe we should revisit that idea.

 

[Brambor]

A few rules

Besides the most obvious:

Don't go alone.

ice axe

crampons

snowshoes

googles

full face mask

hiking poles

warm compartment for cell phone or radio

 

[skiguy]

Good point sierra. I have personally seen more than one instance of someone getting in a bit too deep with microspikes and or aggressive Snowshoes when the crampons should have already been put on.

 

[erugs]

It's one of those situations that MicroSpikes work so well so much of the time. Why spend the extra money for something that seems overkill? Because it's not really overkill. Full size crampons are so much safer when needed but require more knowledge to use them properly and safely. I would compare the difference between the foot traction to using poles instead of an ice axe when the situation calls for it, i.e. I've seen (and I'm sure you have, too) people carrying an ice axe on trails where they won't be needed and/or holding them wrong, and/or they are stashed on a pack when they should be in hand. Wait a minute, that last mistake was mine recently. Makes you safer or can cause real difficulty.

 

[DougPaul]

Lots of beginners out there who may not know the proper gear to bring plus lots of people who leave gear behind to save weight.

The trick is to either bring the gear just-in-case or knowing enough to turn back before the lack of the appropriate gear becomes a safety hazard. (It also helps if you know how to use the gear too...)

The life or limb you save may be your own...

Doug

 

[sierra]

Really its a matter of reading a situation and applying the right technique and the right gear. I love microspikes, but after 1 solid year of field testing, my stand is this. They are a three season crampon, to be used prior to full on winter ice and in the spring when the hard ice is melting. Im back to full point crampons in the winter, period. I solo most of what i do, when Im crossing steep snow or ice, I want my crampons digging into the ice, not scratching the surface, where a slip is probable. It only takes one misstep up high to screw the pooch. you want to chance it with lightweight marginal gear?

 

[Oldmanwinter]

So True

This winter has been one which crampons are not so necessary as in other winters, I didn't take them on hike around Arethusa Falls and Frankenstein Cliffs this past weekend and fully regretted it on the way down. I had snowshoes and microspkes but needed crampons. Good thread!

 

[DougPaul]

Really its a matter of reading a situation and applying the right technique and the right gear. I love microspikes, but after 1 solid year of field testing, my stand is this. They are a three season crampon, to be used prior to full on winter ice and in the spring when the hard ice is melting. Im back to full point crampons in the winter, period. I solo most of what i do, when Im crossing steep snow or ice, I want my crampons digging into the ice, not scratching the surface, where a slip is probable. It only takes one misstep up high to screw the pooch. you want to chance it with lightweight marginal gear?

I view Microspikes as something to be carried in the edge seasons or in addition to crampons, not instead of crampons.

Doug

 

[DougPaul]

This winter has been one which crampons are not so necessary as in other winters, I didn't take them on hike around Arethusa Falls and Frankenstein Cliffs this past weekend and fully regretted it on the way down. I had snowshoes and microspkes but needed crampons. Good thread!

Loop hikes are particularly risky in this regard. If you encounter a difficulty on the way back, you are left with the alternatives of making the risky moves or a long retreat.

Out-and-backs are much safer in this regard.

Thus, I may bring more just-in-case gear on a loop than on an out-and-back.

Doug

 

[Bill and Sheep]

Good thread. I've owned crampons for about 5 years now and had used them all of twice but I they have a permanent spot in my winter pack. I'm glad I had them this weekend as getting through the chimney bypass between the Osceolas was pretty hairy. After one false start going up with snowshoes, I made the switch and felt a lot safer in the crampons.

I saw a lot of people go up and down the bypass with snowshoes but it was slightly out of my comfort range so I was glad to have the big spikes to get me through there safely. I saw one person take a nasty fall off of the side of the bypass. He messed up his arm and broke his snowshoe in half on landing. He's really lucky he didn't break part of himself as he took a good 8-10 foot fall.

 

[TCD]

Another use for microspikes and "Short crampons" (like the Hillsound version) is for flat travel. Even in the full winter season, and on a very icy trail, if it's truly flat (no steep scramples at all, not even a short one) then these less aggressive tools will work nicely. You need to know your route. Last winter there were several period of rock hard trail conditions, and I made a lot of flat trips (like walking into Hoffman Notch) where I benefited from the lightweight and less "trip prone" gear.

 

[Kevin Rooney]

Before microspikes came out, I routinely wore 6 pointers like the type Petzel and Alpi-Aspen made. The length of the spikes were about half way between the microspikes and a Grivel G10. I would only take 10 pointers when there was a steep, icy slope, like going up Lowes Path below the log cabin, Lion's Head Winter route below treeline, Ammo, etc. Now that I use microspikes usually take crampons as well. It's a slight weight penalty, but the overall comfort of walking in microspikes vs. 6 pointers is easier.

This is purely subjective, but I think overall there are fewer slips/falls now that microspikes are so prevalent. I've seen too many instances where people take the crampons off too early on descents because they're hard to walk in, only to then fall and either sprain or break a bone . Now my sense is that when crampons get borderline then people switch to microspikes rather than bareboot it.

 

[weatherman]

Great thread indeed. I remember feeling like Superman when I first used crampons as an alternative to sliding down a steep, icy slope on snowshoes, and wondering why on earth I didn't pull them out sooner. It's OK to feel like Superman, just don't act like him!

 

[Ed'n Lauky]

I've seen (and I'm sure you have, too) people carrying an ice on trails where they won't be needed and/or holding them wrong, and/or they are stashed on a pack when they should be in hand.

As for carrying an ice ax when you don't need it, a few thoughts. One is, like anything else, you don't always know when you will or will not need it. But especially I have it with me even when I don't expect to encounter ice in order to have something I can use to help dig myself out of a spruce trap. They can also be helpful for climbing steep unconsolodated snow slopes.

 

[DougPaul]

As for carrying an ice ax when you don't need it, a few thoughts. One is, like anything else, you don't always know when you will or will not need it. But especially I have it with me even when I don't expect to encounter ice in order to have something I can use to help dig myself out of a spruce trap. They can also be helpful for climbing steep unconsolodated snow slopes.

Actually, a shovel is probably more useful for escaping a deep spruce trap. Use the shovel to move snow under foot where you can pack it to make a platform under you. Build up the platform until you can get out.

Look into light-weight avalanche rescue shovels--they can be disassembled into pieces for easy carrying.

If you are in a group, ~50ft of rope might also be helpful so you can pull from above while the victim pushes from below. Or to pull his pack out for him.

Doug

 

[BF]

Great thread. Good to hear folks talking about getting back to basics…essential gear. I believe crampons are essential above tree line in winter. Especially now. By mid February through spring we can see large sections of ice above tree line, where Microspikes may not be adequate for traveling over.

Actually, a shovel is probably more useful for escaping a deep spruce trap. Use the shovel to move snow under foot where you can pack it to make a platform under you. Build up the platform until you can get out.
Doug

Another way to escape a spruce trap is to remove your pack, put it beside you and lean and push on it. The larger the pack, the better. It will pack some snow, but also act as platform to push off on.
Jay

 

[Chip]

Actually, a shovel is probably more useful for escaping a deep spruce trap. Use the shovel to move snow under foot where you can pack it to make a platform under you. Build up the platform until you can get out.

Doug

I went in up to my eyeballs below Iroquois this weekend and had very little trouble leaning back and walking my feet (and snowshoes) up the opposite side, sort of between 2 trees. If I had needed to I would have removed a snowshoe and used that to shovel with. The thing that concerned me the most was the initial panic and the possible rush to escape exhaustion and then the possibility of a head-first post hole repeat once I was almost out of the trap.

 

[Ed'n Lauky]

Actually, a shovel is probably more useful for escaping a deep spruce trap. Use the shovel to move snow under foot where you can pack it to make a platform under you. Build up the platform until you can get out.

Look into light-weight avalanche rescue shovels--they can be disassembled into pieces for easy carrying.

If you are in a group, ~50ft of rope might also be helpful so you can pull from above while the victim pushes from below. Or to pull his pack out for him.

Doug

Doug, I wouldn't dispute at all that a shovel is better. But there are other constraints that factor in, space and weight are two of them. A multi-purpose tool generally will not be as good as something specifically designed for the situation but in this case it is a least a tool that can be used. I need the ax for multiple reasons and I just can't carry any more than I am carrying now. This kind of compromise comes up all the time in the choices we make when hiking and backpacking.

 

[DougPaul]

I've been in a spruce trap on Lions Head where one leg went in and my body slid downhill on the surface and I was left hanging upside down by the leg. (This was on a steep slope with a soft slab at the surface.) I escaped by smashing the slab around my leg with the shaft of the axe. Solo--I was descending from an ice climb.

And a similar small spruce trap on a steep slope near Isolation. Again, one leg was caught and I was having problems with sliding down the slope. IIRC, I wriggled out. Solo.

I've been in a tight upper chest deep spruce trap on Isolation and was able to wriggle out. Spider Solo was on the mountain at the same time and went into one that was over his head while bushwacking. He made the suggestion of the shovel to me for escaping over-one's-head spruce traps--sorry, I should have given credit. We were both independently solo and compared notes afterward.

Snowshoes can be used as shovels if you can get access to one (ie it isn't caught in the branches). An ice axe adz is inferior, but better than nothing.

Snowshoes, packs, skis, ski poles (laid horizontally), ice axe shafts (laid horizontally), and large sticks can all be used for flotation.

Obviously, you do what you can with what you have. Some tools are better than others for escaping the large and dangerous spruce traps. And, of course, the risks are greater if one is solo.

Doug

 

[sierra]

I too have fell victim to a spruce trap while wearing my sherpa snowshoes and traveling solo. It really isnt funny, one of my snowshoes was completely stuck and yes, I was on my own as no one knew where I was. I had my knife out laying on the snow, I thought I would have to cut out of the bindings as I did dig to them. Ultimately, I managed to get out, but my heart was racing.
I agree with kevin, Ive seen some less aggressive crampons that seem like a good compromise, between microspikes and real crampons, but I like routes like lions head winter route and various headwalls, Im used to crampons from technical climbing, so I will stay with them, but others may find combos that work for them.