Everest: Beyond the Limit. Discussion Note ***WITH SPOILERS***

[Tom Rankin]

(Last Episode, Tonight / Tue 12/19 @10pm)

Can someone post who made it who didn't after tonight's episode?

 

[askus3]

Max & Mark made it safely to the summit and back down but all survived the ordeal but I don't think Tim sees the light and will be back to make the same mistake maybe next time fatally.

 

[bikehikeskifish]

Of the 6 'featured' climbers:

Team 1:
Terry O'Connor - Summit
Moegens Jensen - Not (tried again 2 weeks after everyone else left); insisted on no O2
Brett Merrill (LAFD) - Not, hit personal limit @ 24,000'

Team 2:
Max Chaya - Summit (the man was a machine!)
Tim Medvetz - Not (100 meters from top), had some ugly frostbite but no details on amputation(s).
Mark Inglis - Summit (first double amputee), had to be tobogganed part way down, lost another inch off his legs

Also (went up with team 2, but not mentioned as part of it officially):
"Cowboy" - Summit (no previous mention of this man)
Gerard - At 63 and 2 weeks after removing a kidney came close, but failed, and lost some of all 10 fingers and all 10 toes.

Max Chaya completed the 7 summits list.

HimEx lost a Sherpa in Base Camp prior to heading up.

I think that's all the pertinent info

Tim

 

[Chip]

Brett Merrill (LAFD) - Not, hit personal limit @ 24,000'

I've taped it and will re-watch it (they're also playing all the episodes Sunday afternoon/evening) but so far the only thing I took from this was the idea of "the personal summit". That should be the goal, whether it's an actual summit or something else.

Oh...and winter hiking solo is bad...

 

[Tom Rankin]

Oh...and winter hiking solo is bad...

But only if you're above tree line, in the dark, and wearing cotton!

 

[Jay H]

They rebroadcast those things on friday nights at 8pm too as part of their "survival friday".

Last night's episode was the first one I actually saw on it's first broadcast...

Those feet pictures are pretty gross. I saw a picture of Reinhold Meissner's feet in NatGeo magazine recently too. There are a lot of missing toes out there... Where O where did my little big toe go? Where O where can it be?

I don't know if I'm alone on this but I think Tim could make the summit next year. So long as he tones down the big attitude thing (and listens to others with more experience) and learns a little bit from this attempt. I wonder how much of it was from the cameras and the fact that it was going to be a TV show. Some people surely light up knowing that they will be on TV, Tim included.


Jay

 

[dug]

Idle thoughts while watching it last night...

I was amazed at the pictures from the SherpaCams. I've watched about everything to do with Everest over the years, but these captured the terrain better than even the IMAX did (those were better for the wide shots).

With the shots so visible, I found it interesting that the terrain could have just as easily been on the slopes of Washington or something. Of course, the drop offs go miles not a few hundred feet, but it looked just like a bunch of climbers trying to go up the side of a large Northeast peak (I mention Northeast because I haven't done anything in the West). To see them struggle really points to the amount of O's in the air. You can't see it, so you wonder why they are so wiped.

Incredible show in my opinion.

 

[dvbl]

Random thoughts:

Glad the doc made it, not only for "him", but for the knowledge he gained which will help him while treating/advising future patients.

Mogens is cool. Great attitude.

I'll try to be diplomatic here by simply saying I am not exactly weeping into my oatmeal over the fact that Tim didn't summit. 'nuff said.

Interesting that Brice was irate over the incompetent Chinese climbers (episode 3?) who were holding up his team on the second step. Then it turns out that some of his clients weren't exactly (again I'm trying to be diplomatic here in the holiday season) as well-prepared as they had hoped. Tim and Gerard and Mark had their lives saved, literally, by the sherpas. This is worth repeating. Sometimes, very often, we use the expression "saved his life" in an exaggerated way. But it would seem that Tim, Gerard, and Mark are dead right now if not for Purba and those other sherpas.

One of the major parts of growing older is the gradual losing of illusions. I used to think climbing Mt Everest was an accomplishment beyond belief. Now that I see the way some people summit and get back down, I'm just not as impressed anymore.

Perhaps all the details about the David Sharp incident will never be known, but one thing seems clear: Max tried like hell to save that man's life. Max gave Sharp some of his (Max's) oxygen. That is an incredible act of selflessness and compassion, at considerable risk to his own life. Way to go, Max. May your nightmares fade quickly.

 

[Chip]

I don't know if I'm alone on this but I think Tim could make the summit next year.

What's the sequel's title ? "EVEREST: WAY BEYOND THE LIMIT", "BEYOND THE LIMIT AGAIN", "REALLY BEYOND THE LIMIT THIS TIME" ???

 

[Jay H]

How about "Everest:American Chopper Edition" where the folks from the OCC attempt to climb Everest. Just imagine the product placements and character play...

Jay

 

[DougPaul]

Those feet pictures are pretty gross. I saw a picture of Reinhold Meissner's feet in NatGeo magazine recently too. There are a lot of missing toes out there... Where O where did my little big toe go? Where O where can it be?

Read "Annapurna" by Herzog.
Snip, snip...
A good read, even without the toe stories.

And then read "True Summit : What Really Happened on the Legendary Ascent on Annapurna" by David Roberts. Less about toes, more about the whitewash in the first book. (Portions for the first book are fictionalized.)

Doug

 

[Maddy]

Random thoughts:


Interesting that Brice was irate over the incompetent Chinese climbers (episode 3?) who were holding up his team on the second step. Tim and Gerard and Mark had their lives saved, literally, by the sherpas. This is worth repeating. Sometimes, very often, we use the expression "saved his life" in an exaggerated way. But it would seem that Tim, Gerard, and Mark are dead right now if not for Purba and those other sherpas.

Does anyone know how the Chinese team fared???
Did some make the summit, slow but sure?
How many had to be "saved" by their peers?
Did they lose any to the mountain?
How much frostbite and partial amputations?
I have serious questions about the Brice expedition but I am honoring Christmas so I will end this right here.
$$$$$

 

[sleeping bear]

One of the big things that struck me about the last couple episodes was how relatively easy it all looked. Yeah sure there were huge drop offs beside the route and the wind was blowing etc. etc. The video footage, unfortunately, does not convey how difficult it must be up there. Where Tim was turned around DID look close to the summit. I almost feel like the whole thing was an intrusion on a unique experience that most sitting at home on their couch cannot comprehend. In homes all across America family and friends are no doubt now debating Tim's turn around, Brice's decision making and the guy left to die. A while back when the thread was going here about the deaths this spring, there was a general concensus that none of us should be commenting critically on the decisions made, and I would tend to agree. This show opened it up for millions of people to do just that.

The show made it look easy (relatively speaking). They made the frostbite seem like it was just a part of life for going up there, on a pretty uneventful (weather wise) trip.

Initially I was skeptical about Brice's technique of staying down and communicating over radio to the climbers. In the end I kind of liked that approach, it's interesting, although I wonder how it would play out in a storm/disaster.

In general I didn't care too much for Brice. He didn't seem very personable and came accorss as a little dry for TV. He never seemed to have much emotion or enthusiasm in his voice/face.

Just some thoughts...

 

[Jay H]

Read "Annapurna" by Herzog.
Snip, snip...
A good read, even without the toe stories.

And then read "True Summit : What Really Happened on the Legendary Ascent on Annapurna" by David Roberts. Less about toes, more about the whitewash in the first book. (Portions for the first book are fictionalized.)

Doug

I've read Annapurna already many years ago but not the Roberts one, I'll have to check that out... thanks!

Jay

 

[keb]

Direct comments and random thoughts:

great comment dvbl about losing illusions and David Sharp. Max did all he could.

Jay, wasn't having Tim on the mountain as close as we need to OCC?

Interesting opinion sleeping bear. While I agree that the footage makes the individual settings seem "easy", I came away with a completely different sense of the challange the mountain itself. I've read enough to know I never wanted to go anywhere near Everest. But if there was ever a grain of irrational thought about it, that show wiped it out.

Seeing the climbers stumbling around and, as previously stated, only being alive because of the sherpas, was profoundly moving. There is nothing more that anyone in Brice's group could do for Sharp. Any effort at all, put in by a climber to save him, is directly affecting his own chance of survival. Those guys just barely made it back. I am very curious what it took to get Tim and Gerard out of Camp 4 and down to Camp 3. They cut that whole thing out. The tale by Brice of the Korean team attempting to remove the body only further hammered that home. Seeing the frostbite and amputations was the last straw.

Purba was amazing! Did you see him carrying Mark? Unbelievable. The guy was still above 20,000 on a steep rocky slope. Truly unbelievable.

 

[Jay H]

One of the big things that struck me about the last couple episodes was how relatively easy it all looked.

I believe it it is understood that the Hillary step is the last somewhat technical climbing section of the hike. I bet if you showed the last episode without any indication that it was Everest and perhaps removed the people, it would look like any other snow covered peak above treeline!

jay

 

[dvbl]

I believe it it is understood that the Hillary step is the last somewhat technical climbing section of the hike. I bet if you showed the last episode without any indication that it was Everest and perhaps removed the people, it would look like any other snow covered peak above treeline!

jay

I apologize if I'm misunderstanding your post, but I believe the Hillary Step is on the Southeast Ridge; these guys climbed on the north side.

 

[Jay H]

dvbl: You're probably right... I only started watching this show about 2 weeks ago, and even then, on the friday night rebroadcasts, last night was the first one I saw on it's first airing. Makes sense, since I remember the controversy with David Sharp as he was on climbing from the north.

Jay

 

[bikehikeskifish]

Initially I was skeptical about Brice's technique of staying down and communicating over radio to the climbers. In the end I kind of liked that approach, it's interesting, although I wonder how it would play out in a storm/disaster.

In general I didn't care too much for Brice. He didn't seem very personable and came accorss as a little dry for TV. He never seemed to have much emotion or enthusiasm in his voice/face.

Just some thoughts...

I would think Brice is the exactly the kind of dry, unemotional person you would want to make life-or-death decisions for you. Showing too much emotion for the those who summit makes it hard to talk Tim and Gerard out of summiting with his next breath.

Clearly he is capable of emotion, as we saw at the beginning (when the Sherpa died) and at the end while saying goodbye and apologizing for the frostbite...


Tim

 

[Tuco]

I agree with Sleeping Bear. I commented earlier that this series in general didn't convey to me how bad the conditions are. 11 people died and 3/4 of the time or more the footage showed beautiful blue skies and reasonable winds. Guys sitting around in lawn chairs . I guess after reading the stories I expected blizzards and white outs. Plus you also can't convey what HAPE looks and feels like- it can happen in any weather up there.

A couple of interesting points. Based on the footage (edited of course) the guide said he saw david sharp earlier in the day but there was no mention if he radioed Brice at that time. When Chaya called in it seemed (or was sort of inferred by lack of knowledge that Sharp was there when Chaya radioed) that was the first time Brice heard of it. I felt bad for Chaya- two great acheivements on one summit and the Sharp incident at the end looked like it affected him quite a bit. Editing will keep us from getting a true read on any of this.

I am also suprsied more has not been made of the need to bring down Inglis with assistance. Brice said something to the effect he thought that might happen. Would he have received assistance if he couldn't descend any further while in the death zone? After the speech about needing 20 Sherpas to get Sharp down would they have left Inglis if he couldn't walk due to the probelms with his stumps? With all of the time spent yelling at Tim (who I think was annoying at times) I think that Inglis endangered himself and others more than Tim. He could just as easily had his troubles above camp 4 on rougher terrain, the kind of troubles oxygen and drink can't help. At least thats what I felt at the end of the show.

Great stuff- amazing amazing footage. I may watch it again to see if after knowing what happens my opinions differ. Despite any comments above it seems like Brice does a great job of trying to make summits and safety for his clients and overall does a lot for the whole community of climbers there. He even called Sharp's parent's. Maybe I was swayed by the fact he was quite choked up when the Sherpa dies and at the end.