Faraway - Every Which Way (Oct. 19, 2008)

vftt.org

Help Support vftt.org:

This site may earn a commission from merchant affiliate links, including eBay, Amazon, and others.

Amicus

Well-known member
Joined
Aug 28, 2005
Messages
1,145
Reaction score
112
Location
New England Avatar: Bay Circuit Trail
Everest...K2...Denali...Faraway.... A handful of the world's summits exude drama and controversy. In the case of Faraway, that mainly relates to which of several possible bumps on a ridge in Moultonborough in the Ossipees, northeast of Mt. Roberts and south of Black Snout, deserves the name. In a spirit of scientific adventure akin to what must have motivated Sir Edmund Hillary and Tenzing Norgay, buckyball1 (jim f.) and I decided to explore all of them in one fell swoop. It was also a nice Fall day and jim was looking for a respite from his punishing Maine bushwhacks.

Background. The Bald Peak Colony Club is a posh golf resort on the shores of Lake Winnipesaukee in Melvin Village, a couple of miles south of the Ossipees. It was founded nearly 100 years ago, and a Plan of Locale said to date from its early years, while it is wildly inaccurate, is the oldest map I've seen to mention "Faraway." Its inaccuracies make it hard to be certain which peak the mapmaker had in mind, but the best guess of many of us is that it is one of the two bumps you'll see in the horseshoe formed by the High Ridge Trail, in Ossipee trail maps, such as the excellent one by Trail Bandit and the various others published by the Lakes Region Conservation Trust. They are over half a mile below the high-point of the Faraway ridge, which is festooned with some sort of electronics tower and some solar panels, reached by a very clear utility trail running north from the High Ridge Trail and shown by Trail Bandit's map. That high-point appears on current topos as x2,782, and is widely (but not universally) considered to be "Faraway" these days.

The USGS Board on Geographic Names carries much authority when it comes to linking names and places, but unfortunately they have not bothered with Faraway. Thus, I attach little significance to the fact that the USGS survey maps slap down the word "Faraway" a little south of those bumps. Neither bump gets an "x" or an elevation and the location of the word may relate to the well-known "Faraway Mtn. Lookout" at the south point of the High Ridge Trail, right where the word appears, rather than to those bumps.

The Old Carriage Road. An earlier version of the LRCT map which shows many details omitted from the current edition shows what looks like an old carriage road, which I thought might be the same one shown in that Bald Peak Colony Club Plan of Locale, peeling off that utility trail near its beginning and heading south over the two horseshoe bumps, ending on the south bump. We determined to check that out, but first enjoyed a wonderful stroll up the Mt. Roberts Trail from the hikers' parking lot at the bottling plant. The ledges gave us a wealth of wonderful Autumn views - foliage past its peak but still colorful.

After taking the utility trail to the Faraway summit, we found what I assume was the starting point of the old road, just a little past the chain and roller near the beginning of the utility trail. It was hardly distinguishable from the surrounding forest, but did wind upwards to the north bump in just a couple of hundred yards. From there, it became more pronounced, with some supporting stonework, as it headed .1 mile south to its terminus at the south end of the south bump plateau. There were no views from the north bump and limited views SW, through leafless branches, of the Lake from the south bump. The USGS map makes the north bump look a little higher, but both of our altimeters gave that honor to the south bump, mine reading 2,725 ft., vs. 2,720 for the north bump. We thought we might find a canister or jar somewhere, but diligent searching of both bumps turned up nothing. Instead of retracing our steps, we dropped down from the end of the old road straight south to a point on the High Ridge Trail just about 20 feet east of the Faraway Mtn. Lookout, with its bench. The woods were open and this was easy 'whacking.

Cold Spring Trail - Shortened. To make a loop for ourselves, we continued east on the High Ridge Trail until we hit the Cold Spring Trail, which takes you to the road that runs from the Castle to the Spring, in a series of huge switchbacks. We cut a bunch of those out and saved a few miles by following an old skidding road that runs straight south from about the fourth switchback. So, we enjoyed a wonderful Fall day in the woods - mellow hiking and the cause of scientific knowledge advanced.

Lesson learned. We Romans have a saying: "Cessante causa cessat effectus," or as you might put it, if the cause disappears, let the effect disappear. If that 1919 golf course promoter meant one of those horseshoe bumps by "Faraway," it could only have been because that old carriage road was then new and really a road. It isn't anymore, so let logic prevail and the summit be "Faraway," as the AMC, Brent Scudder and other sage authorities have agreed.

My pictures are here, but reordered so that the bumps come before the summit of Faraway.
 
Last edited:
Are we having fun yet? I know I am when ever I am in the Ossipees. :p:rolleyes::D
 
My thanks to Amicus for a beautiful, laid back day in the Ossipees; first time I've hiked there other than a quick jaunt up Shaw a few years back. It was a welcome respite to follow in someone's footsteps and drink in the surroundings. I will return and perhaps even seek exalted status as an Ossipee "10er" one day:).

....boundless appreciation for the tireless long term efforts of Trail Bandit to research, clear and literally put this area on the map. I hope someone picks up his mantle going forward

jim
 
The USGS map makes the north bump look a little higher, but both of our altimeters gave that honor to the south bump, mine reading 2,725 ft., vs. 2,720 for the north bump.
Interestingly the USGS 15' quad shows the S bump higher, this may be one of those cases where hours spent with a plane table draw a better map than seconds with an air photo

AMC, Brent Scudder and other sage authorities have agreed.
I haven't been able to track down the Scudder book yet, but it was pointed out by a different sage authority that the AMC map in question was one of the era that also showed non-existent trails to 4025 and Davis and has been discarded and replaced by all-new maps

I still say that the NH State Planning Commission and the NH Dept of Public Works and Highways are greater authorities on NH place names than r21 and TB

....boundless appreciation for the tireless long term efforts of Trail Bandit to research, clear and literally put this area on the map.
I personally wish TB had done more research and less mapmaking :)
so that the more detailed map by the Phantom Trailbuilder would receive wider circulation
 
Faraway, research, and maps

Hi to all, especially Roy,
I hope all of you out there will review the latest version of the Trail Bandit Ossipee map (10/20/08) and report any errors, omissions, or anything else you think should be added, removed, or corrected.
I am familiar with all the discussions about Faraway, and since Amicus has located some of the old stone work on the dotted line shown on the Dave Roberts map, I may have to concede that the name Faraway really was associated with the two lesser bumps. I will go check it out.
I have done more research than you may realize and wish to present an accurate and historically correct map of the area. Again, I ask for input because I am thinking of having the map printed. Errors on a website are one thing, but printed maps have a way of becomming the real word. It is sort of like the old hand sketch that has been referred to many times in respect to Faraway. 100 years from now, somebody may pull out a 2008 Trail Bandit map and hold it up as proof of something. Help me make it right.
The Trail Bandit
 
Again, I ask for input because I am thinking of having the map printed. Errors on a website are one thing, but printed maps have a way of becomming the real word. It is sort of like the old hand sketch that has been referred to many times in respect to Faraway. 100 years from now, somebody may pull out a 2008 Trail Bandit map and hold it up as proof of something.
That of course is exactly what I was trying to prevent which is why I have been so insistent on this issue. I volunteer for my local historical society and it's amazing how much bogus information is around. (Suppose that the only information that survived from this era was a collection of campaign flyers from this election :)

Obviously my first suggestion is to return "Faraway Mtn" to where it originally was so you won't be taking an official stand and everybody can keep believing what they want. It's tempting to label "Mountain View" so r21 will have a name for his peak but I agree that one old ad is not definitive evidence.

The Phantom Trailbuilder's map of the Belknap Range is a true jewel - if it shows a telephone pole far from any trail and you go out there, you'll find a telephone pole. His Ossipee Range map is much less detailed because he spent less time there, but you might consider visiting and adding any off-trail features he does have. Incidentally the PeakMaster
and I visited Pt. 1223 about a mile NW of the Castle (which was Sunset Point on some versions of the map) and it is a rocky outlook with traces of stonework for a carriage road partway over.

The map that I would really like to see is one that shows all the old carriage roads, viewpoints etc. of course in a different style than presently-maintained trails. It would seem that LRCT, Moultonborough Historical Society, Bald Peak Colony Club, etc. must have an original plan from which these could be added.
 
Hi Roy,
I would like to make a comment regarding the accuracy of the current USGS topographic maps VS the older "Plane Table" maps. In general the current maps are much more accurate. The USGS standards for a map are that the position of all "TESTED" points is better than +/- 1/50 inch on the map. On the 1:24000 maps, this is +/- 40 feet. The elevations "TESTED" are
+/- one half of the contour interval. On the 1:24000 maps this is +/- 10 Ft.
This doesn't mean that every place on the map is that accurate, but it is the kind of work they now do. The above is a condensed version if the story. The plane table maps were nowhere near as good. They changed from the plane table method to aerial photography because it is more accurate and easier too. I have used aerial stereo photos for trail location for making my maps, and you can easily see and measure differences of elevation of a foot or so.
All the trails shown on my map have been hiked with a GPS receiver. I have not copied a trail shown on any other map as I don't know what is there and many maps are wrong. The old map of the LRCT property is a superb and accurate effort. I have mapped most of what he shows. In a few places, some of his tracks have become so overgrown that I couldn't find them. if I can't find it, I don't put it on my map. I will revisit the Faraway area and check out the stonework that Amicus has reported.
Again, I hope all you hikers will enjoy my map and please report any trails that you know of that I haven't shown.
 
The USGS standards for a map are that the position of all "TESTED" points is better than +/- 1/50 inch on the map. On the 1:24000 maps, this is +/- 40 feet.
Not quite, only 90% of tested points have to be that good and other points don't have to meet any standard:
http://rockyweb.cr.usgs.gov/nmpstds/nmas647.html
"For maps on publication scales larger than 1:20,000, not more than 10 percent of the points tested shall be in error by more than 1/30 inch, measured on the publication scale; for maps on publication scales of 1:20,000 or smaller, 1/50 inch. These limits of accuracy shall apply in all cases to positions of well-defined points only."

The elevations "TESTED" are
+/- one half of the contour interval. On the 1:24000 maps this is +/- 10 Ft.
I'll be interested in what you get for the 2 Faraway elevations

(I wonder how many hikers know that 2782 also has 2 bumps, someone with a good altimeter should measure them both.)

They changed from the plane table method to aerial photography because it is more accurate and easier too.
The real reason they changed was the cost. I heard that the USGS has eliminated all field mapping crews.
In general the current maps are much more accurate.
...The plane table maps were nowhere near as good.
It's like comparing an assembly line with hand craftsmanship. Some plane table maps were truly terrible, and some were more detailed than the new maps.

I have not copied a trail shown on any other map as I don't know what is there and many maps are wrong.
I suggested that you visit the points yourself, not copy them. I do wish
that you would add indistinct or obscure trails, with a different symbol
of course.
 
(I wonder how many hikers know that 2782 also has 2 bumps, someone with a good altimeter should measure them both.)

I visited both of those bumps...my mental altimeter (which is not officially recognized by the USGS) showed the bump with the towers to be marginally higher.
 
Hi Roy,
I am aware of the many discussions about Faraway and I hope the issue can rest until someone has some new, documented information to bring to the issue. Perhaps you might do some research and perhaps find out when and who first used the name Faraway.
About the map, if you check it out a little, you will see that I have use a number of different markings for the various grades of roads, going from big solid lines for highways, to little dotted lines for things such as skidder roads.
Things marked with solid, colored lines are the hiking trails. I have reserved that marking for tracks that are regurlarly used for hiking and usually have a name. When and if I have the thing printed, there will be a legend and all trails will get a description similar to what was done by Dave Roberts.
Please lend a hand and help find some of the trails and features that I have not yet mapped. I am sure there are many wonderful trails and places just waiting to be found.
About the aerial method of map making. The stereo aerial photo method is very accurate at determining differences in elevation, and plotting where things are. It does not provide absolute elevations. The field survey work must be done to calibrate the photos. You need known elevations of a few places, to reference things to.
Get out and hike, I will look forward to your trip reports.
 
Perhaps you might do some research and perhaps find out when and who first used the name Faraway.
Well, the map that carole found was circa 1919 and the earlier USGS map was 1931. The "Mountains of New Hampshire" book I believe was ~1960s and the county map by the highway department was ~1970, all showing Faraway in the lower location.

By contrast, A's sources are all from this decade and r21 wasn't there until this year so I'm not sure why you think any older sources are necessary. It would be nice to find a more definitive source than the "Plan of Locale".

Please lend a hand and help find some of the trails and features that I have not yet mapped. I am sure there are many wonderful trails and places just waiting to be found.
In addition to the overgrown carriage road previously mentioned which the Plan of Locale shows, there is a trail entering L about halfway up Roberts where the trail turns R to go around the steep area. I'll get a coordinate next time I'm there.
 
Well, the map that carole found was circa 1919 and the earlier USGS map was 1931. The "Mountains of New Hampshire" book I believe was ~1960s and the county map by the highway department was ~1970, all showing Faraway in the lower location.

It would be nice to find a more definitive source than the "Plan of Locale".


I can't reasonably complain about a little more rehashing, since I reopened the topic by this TR. To clarify a few points:

1. The 1919 map and the golf resort "Plan of Locale" are one and the same - I attached a link in my TR above. It is not remotely accurate, but it is both the first map I've seen that has "Faraway" and the only one before the Scudder and AMC maps where you can tell with some degree of certainty what point the map-drawer had in mind - the end of a carriage-road.

2. Where that "old carriage road" went cannot be determined with any degree of assurance from the 1919 Plan of Locale, because it is so inaccurate. Still, I suspected (as did Roy) that it might be the rough track shown on Dave Robert's map that became the basis of the LRCT maps (which omit it), running over the two "horseshoe bumps." The stonework we found Sunday on a brief stretch between the bumps lends evidence to that hypothesis, but does not prove it.

3. The "old carriage road" does not appear on the 1931 topo that Roy mentions (nor does the carriage road to the summit). That topo does, however, show the carriage road now known as the High Ridge Trail, which it calls "Mtn. Ridge Drive." "Faraway Mtn." appears at the south end of the Drive's horseshoe, right where the "Faraway Mtn. Lookout" is located now and probably in 1931, and it seems at least as plausible a guess that the person who put "Faraway" on that topo was thinking of the Lookout, rather than either of those anonymous bumps (if indeed he or she had any specific point in mind, since "Faraway" has never cracked the USGS name register).

4. I don't know about Roy's highway map, but even the LRCT, in a newsletter I excerpted in some earlier post, identified Faraway as x2,782. AMC and Scudder agree, and none of Roy's authorities that I've seen indicate clearly what point they mean.

5. I look forward to retirement, when I'll devote a year or maybe three to settling this once and for all. :)
 
Last edited:
Hi Roy,
Originally, the trail, shown on Dave Roberts old map, followed a series of switchbacks as it went up the ridge, staying mostly to the west of the present trail location and not going out on the ledges as it does presently. This original trail was on a series of either carriage or logging roads. When the trail was reopened approximately 6 years ago, the trail was rerouted out along the ledges. In many places the old carriage roads are still quite visible. I have not bothered to put them on the map as they are not maintained at all since the snowmobiles aren't allowed up there any more, and there doesn't seem to be anything of interest out there.
Thanks for the hint. please share any others that you may know about, that I haven't put on the map. Note, one trail in the northern part of the range has been removed at the request of the landowner. The owner allows hiking but requests that the trails on her property not be marked or put on a map. Fair enough I guess. She could post the property.
 
Hi Kids,
If anyone really wants to waste a beautiful day, I can provide a theodolite, complete with distance measuring equipment, and we can lug it all up to the three Faraways. With a couple of hours of measurements, and perhaps more clearing to get a clear view, we could determine once and for all the exact ( +/- an inch or so) relative heights of the hills. I would need help to haul all the junk up there (and back down). It would be a waste of time as it doesn't matter, but it might turn out to be a bonding sort of thing. Who knows, it might even be fun. A sign up sheet can be provided if necessary.
 
5. I look forward to retirement, when I'll devote a year or maybe three to settling this once and for all. :)
I'm not sure how far away (!!) that is, but I'll have more time in 2 weeks when deer season starts. Meanwhile, I have replied in the Faraway Mtn note.
 
Went to Faraway, whichever it was

Had a fine hike Monday, but as I was unencumbered by 50# of survey equipment the results will be approximate. They were paving the road to the bottling plant which will be good news for hikers this winter. (I would have built the plant at Rte. 171 and let the water flow down in a pipe maybe generating power on the way.)

As to the bumps on 2782, I agree with my previous opinion that it's too close to call but as r21 says probably the one by the radio tower is higher. The spot elevation on the USGS map is at neither point but much closer to the tower.

On my previous Faraway visits I went over the lower bumps without particular attention to the carriage road, but this time I did both. As shown on the PT map, the road runs to the N of both bumps and it's easy to locate by the sidehill cut but not particularly easy to walk on due to many deadfalls. In the col area there is a long section of stone cribbing which would not have been done for a logging road so this was almost definitely a carriage road, probably the one on the BPCC map but perhaps rebuilt by Plant. I couldn't find any old tower hardware either here or on 2782 so can't be sure if these were tower locations. As to elevations, my GPS gave the E bump 5' higher and it also looked higher standing in the col with most leaves down. Neither is an accurate measurement but I doubt that the W bump is the 20' higher shown on the 7.5' map - the users of the newer technology seem to have failed here.
 
Had a fine hike Monday . . . .

That is very fine hike. Thanks for your detailed observations, which are entirely consistent with those of buckyball and me on our recent hike there. I agree that the stone cribbing between the horseshoe bumps (which I would call N and S rather than W and E, but author's choice) points to a carriage road there, presumably completed, but by whom and for how long maintained, who knows? Long gone, anyway. We too looked in vain for tower anchors.
 
Top