Faraway Mtn May Be Closer Than You Think

[RoySwkr]

Over the years, the USGS has been pretty consistent in applying the name "Faraway Mtn" to one of a pair of knolls in the Ossipee Range.
http://docs.unh.edu/NH/choc31se.jpg
http://docs.unh.edu/NH/choc58se.jpg
http://mapper.acme.com/?ll=43.75640,-71.31226&z=15&t=T&marker0=43.78285,-71.32841
(As DP points out, this name is only on maps and not in the GNIS database)

Recently however some revisionist geographers have moved this name to a higher bump in the area 2782, based on the following dubious logic:
1) Names always apply to the highest bump in the area
2) That name must be Faraway Mtn

The first statement is not always true, think "Peak above the Nubble", Mt Morgan in the Squam Range, etc.

As for the second, Carole discovered the following tourist map presumably created by the group that named the peaks, it appears that the higher point was once called "Mountain View"



http://www.winnipesaukee.com/photopost/showphoto.php?photo=10197

 

[albee]

The evidence you have introduced looks pretty convincing to me, Roy.

I like the Scudder's Guide, but I wouldn't classify him as an authority on the subject. Also, since when does an AMC guidebook count as being more authoritative than a USGS quad map? The guidebook is simply a tool to help get you to the area, not the be-all end-all authority on all things regarding the region.

If I had one vote, I would name this highpoint the "Peak above Faraway Mountain". (But Schweiker Peak has a nice ring to it, too!)

 

[Amicus]

This horse has been flogged well past the point of death, both here and, at much greater length, in a thread on Rocks on Top. I'm tired of it so will say no more after this (except to respond in kind to any insults ).

To put this in perspective, the debate arose only because Rocket21 put Faraway on his recently concocted "Ossipee 10" list. I was happy to give that a push and think the world of it, but it is far from the most serious of lists - no patch, no scroll, no public register of finishers, just the satisfaction of some great trails and views you'd otherwise likely miss. If Albee and others want to bushwhack to the obscure knoll that Roy considers to be the one true Faraway, telling themselves that they alone have completed Rocket's list, then I say more power to them.

I didn't make up x2,782 as Faraway, and neither did Trail Bandit before me. I've already cited the AMC maps and Scudder's View Guide. Roy: my LRCT reference comes from their Winter 1999 Newsletter, announcing their acquisition of Plant's "Castle" property:

The Ossipees are an unusual ten mile diameter circular geographical formation formed by a single ring-dike volcano about 60 million years ago. Nearly a dozen of the peaks rise above 2,000 feet and several are above 2,300 with Faraway at 2,782 feet and the highest, Mount Shaw, at 2,990 feet above sea level.

I didn't go looking for that, merely stumbled on it, so there may be other references to Faraway in their publications.

 

[RoySwkr]

This inset from the "Phantom Trailbuilder" map of the Ossipee Range shows the old carriage road to the Faraway summits which matches quite well with the BPCC map. This carriage road is quite overgrown and does not appear on the TrailBandit map.

I am not affiliated with the Ossipee10 Club and don't care if it wishes to require the ascent of 2782, just call it "Mountain View" or "Bandit Peak" or "Rocket Peak" and leave Faraway Mtn where it belongs.

 

[rocket21]

This carriage road is quite overgrown and does not appear on the TrailBandit map.

It is indeed quite overgrown (I have visited that area since our last thread on RoT). I'm not sure if the Trail Bandit it will add it to his map - all that really exists from what I could see (I did not follow it) is the grade. Some of the other old carriage/logging roads appear to be in much better shape, such as the one that cuts down to Cold Spring Road.

 

[MichaelJ]

Note that "Faraway Mtn" could more easily have been written next to the higher bump if that's where it belonged, they did extra work to place it next to the lower one. The USGS may be wrong, but they clearly don't think it's the higher bump

Why is a "mountain" only the bump on the top? This seems to be quite a major chunk of earth and rock and there's no reason to think that the name could not apply to both knolls *and* the 2782' knob.

In other words, take a look at Owl's Head. The topo maps clearly show the name applied to the small knob at the southern end. They could easily have put that text elsewhere, but chose to put it down there, despite the "X 4023" being further north.

That means by Roy's own logic, nobody hikes to the real summit of Owl's Head.

 

[Papa Bear]

In other words, take a look at Owl's Head. The topo maps clearly show the name applied to the small knob at the southern end. They could easily have put that text elsewhere, but chose to put it down there, despite the "X 4023" being further north.

On my web site, on the list of the 4Ks, I refer to x4025 as "Unnamed Peak above Owls Head". See my list (scroll down to #43).

Real peakbaggers will climb:
1) the old summit
2) the new summit
3) the real "Owls Head"

Otherwise, of course, it won't count.

 

[AndyF]

Whats in a name? Climb whatever knob you want and call it what it want or climb them all.

'Tis but its name that is thy enemy;
Thou art thyself, though not a Faraway.
What's Faraway? it is nor rock, nor root,
Nor tree, nor cliff face, nor any other part
Belonging to a mountain. O, be some other name!
What's in a name? that which we call a peak
By any other name would have views as sweet;
So Faraway would, were it not Faraway call'd,
Retain that dear perfection which it owes
Without that title. Faraway, doff thy name,
And for that name which is no part of thee
Take all myself.

 

[carole]

A rose by any other name is still a rose. In my limited knowledge I have come to view Mt. Roberts as a rose and Faraway Mt. as a thorn bush (in more ways than one). I have hiked to the 'Faraway Mt. lookout' and that may be as near or faraway as I get.

 

[RoySwkr]

Iris reports that "The Mountains of New Hampshire" prepared by the New Hampshire State Planning and Development Commission lists Faraway Mtn at 2720. While this book is based on 15' maps and is not infallable, it is probably the most official source of NH mountain names.

 

[RoySwkr]

That means by Roy's own logic, nobody hikes to the real summit of Owl's Head.

By your logic, maybe. You should perhaps read some of the old posts on Owls Head.

Unfortunately peakbaggers have stolen the name Owls Head for the higher summit, but as this was done over 50 years ago and Miriam Underhill was one of the miscreants I don't expect the AMC to ever change this.

As I have noted previously in a trip report, I don't think the USGS location is correct either, rather "Owls Head" was probably the clifftop which looks like an owl's head from Black Pond.

Finally, both myself and many others have hiked all 3 of these plus many more bumps on Owls Head.

 

[Waumbek]

Iris reports that "The Mountains of New Hampshire" prepared by the New Hampshire State Planning and Development Commission lists Faraway Mtn at 2720. While this book is based on 15' maps and is not infallable, it is probably the most official source of NH mountain names.

I don't have a horse in this race, but find the whole issue of mountain nomenclature interesting and have followed the various arguments from that perspective. I'm (more) confused now. Is the State Planning Commission's Faraway Mtn at 2720 the same as Trail Bandit's Faraway Mtn at 2728? Please clarify.

Edit: that should read "Trail Bandit's Faraway Mtn at 2782?"

 

[MichaelJ]

Unfortunately peakbaggers have stolen the name Owls Head for the higher summit, but as this was done over 50 years ago and Miriam Underhill was one of the miscreants I don't expect the AMC to ever change this.

Regardless, you can no longer claim that your GPS found the true summit of Owl's Head. As PB notes ... that's the "Peak Above Owl's Head". To name it anything else, by your argument about Faraway, would be wrong.

Miscreants 50 years ago vs. "renegade geographers" today. What fun!

 

[RoySwkr]

Regardless, you can no longer claim that your GPS found the true summit of Owl's Head.

Sure I can, it just depends on what coordinates you use

As PB notes ... that's the "Peak Above Owl's Head". To name it anything else, by your argument about Faraway, would be wrong.

Once again you are misquoting my statements. Calling the 4025 summit "Owls Head" is a poor decision because it coopts the name of a nearby bump with which it might be confused. I don't particularly care if you call 4025 "Mount Unadogger" although the U.S. Board of Geographic Names might object.

 

[RoySwkr]

Is the State Planning Commission's Faraway Mtn at 2720 the same as Trail Bandit's Faraway Mtn at 2782? Please clarify.

Doubtful. Presumably the compiler of the book believed that Faraway Mtn was the southerly of the 2 lower knobs and not the high bump behind, they do not give a name for that bump.
http://docs.unh.edu/NH/choc58se.jpg

 

[nartreb]

Apologies for reviving a contentious topic, but I was drawn in due indirectly to my role as maintainer of the Owl's Head page on SummitPost. As Owl's Head is a clear example of a name that designated a lower peak while the true summit remained unnamed, it makes a good test case for deciding whether maps are reliable. One of the protagonists of this dispute offered, in rebuttal to Roy's citations of the USGS maps showing Faraway at 2720+ or 2700+, the AMC maps as showing Faraway at 2782. (They do show that, or at least the only one I have that shows Faraway at all does.) So naturally I looked to see how my AMC maps showed Owl's Head. My findings don't revise my opinions about Owl's Head at all, but they might be of interest in the debate about Faraway, so I'll detail them here.
All of that was prelude to my main point: the AMC maps show a fascinating inconsistency with regard to Owl's Head.

On the 1998 paper edition (included with the WMG 26th Ed) of Map 2 (Franconia-Pemigewasset) and Map 4 (Moosilauke-Kinsman), Owl's Head refers simply to 4025. (Map 4 is on the back of Map 3; this edition of Map 3 is the only AMC map I have that shows Faraway.)

On the 2007 Tyvek edition ("for use with" WMG 28th ed) of Map 4 (Moosilauke-Kinsman), there is a red triangle (meaning 4000-footer) and the name Owl's Head at 4025, but the name Owl's Head also appears at 3660.

On the 2007 Tyvek edition of Map 2 (Franconia - Pemigewasset), 4025 shows a red triangle with the name "Owl's Head Mtn", and "Owl's Head" refers to 3660.

Very curious, especially the inconsistency between Map 2 and Map 4 in the 2007 Tyvek edition.

The name "Owl's Head Mountain" appears to be a wholly new name for 4025. I rather like it, actually. Simple, easy to remember and pronounce, and preserves a technical distinction from Owl's Head proper.

 

[RoySwkr]

2. Where that "old carriage road" went cannot be determined with any degree of assurance from the 1919 Plan of Locale, because it is so inaccurate.... The stonework we found Sunday on a brief stretch between the bumps lends evidence to that hypothesis, but does not prove it.

The 1919 map is more accurate than you think, everything on it is in a similar location on the Phantom Trailbuilder map that shows the abandoned carriage roads - the counterclockwise road to Mountain View, the dead end to Faraway, the horseshoe bend in the carriage road E of Faraway, the two funny switchbacks NW of the pond. It's too bad that TB won't put the overgrown roads on his map for explorers to investigate, and it's too bad that r21 has space on this site for multiple versions of the TB map but not for the PT map which has far more detail.

4. I don't know about Roy's highway map, but even the LRCT, in a newsletter I excerpted in some earlier post, identified Faraway as x2,782. AMC and Scudder agree, and none of Roy's authorities that I've seen indicate clearly what point they mean.

Both the book by the NH Planning Commission and the county highway map by the NH DPW&H give Faraway Mtn an elevation of 2720 which clearly means the lower bump. The Planning Commission is probably the closest thing to an official source that NH has and is the one suggested by Iris Baird. You can probably get these from a library if you don't want to believe me.

By contrast, all of the sources cited by Mr. A are tertiary sources from this decade and at least one is bogus.

I called Gene Daniell on Thursday, and after we solved the Iraq problem I asked him about Faraway Mtn. He said he thought it was the lower one, and any indication to the contrary in the AMC guidebook was not based on his research but an inadvertent error (which presumably will be corrected in the next edition). If Scudder or the LRCT have an independent source, I'd like to hear about it.

 

[rocket21]

it's too bad that r21 has space on this site for multiple versions of the TB map but not for the PT map which has far more detail.

I don't have permission to post the 'PT' map at this time.

 

[Amicus]

Both the book by the NH Planning Commission and the county highway map by the NH DPW&H give Faraway Mtn an elevation of 2720 which clearly means the lower bump.

Which one? Is either of those 2720? (I'd want more than the evidence of my altimeter - air pressure changes.) Plenty of other points thereabouts are about 2720. I didn't realize this state agency had the authority to decree what names should be attached to what places. Not knowing how they go about that august process, I exercise my constitutional right to ignore them, at least in this instance. If the USGS can mess up (as you have told us), I guess this agency is entitled to one mistake (if in fact they meant one of those horseshoe bumps).

You can probably get these from a library if you don't want to believe me.

I would never question your integrity.

By contrast, all of the sources cited by Mr. A are tertiary sources from this decade and at least one is bogus.

News to me - which one?

 

[Raymond]

I don’t know what set off this discussion, but I’ll throw in my two cents, which is my guess that the 2765 bump in the back may not have been visible from the surrounding towns when names were being given and was overlooked.

Also, names of mountains have been inadvertently switched before; I remember reading that Panther and Henderson in the Adirondacks were once the other way around and switched for no apparent reason on the next map that was issued.