Fill in your divots!

[Elizabeth]

I am glad that New England does not have the strict rules on wearing snowshoes in winter that exist in the Adirondacks. It is nice that we are given the discretion to wear on our feet what is appropriate for the conditions of the particular day and path, without a blanket provision for the season. This past weekend was a perfect example of that - warm and mushy on Saturday (snowshoes needed on most trails); cooler on Sunday (as long as you stuck to the "monorail" hardpack, snowshoes were not needed on many trails).

However . . . this puts the responsibility on individual hikers to keep from wrecking the trails with postholes. If you fill in any postholes you make with snow and take time to tamp down the snow, you can actually improve the trail for the next person, rather than destroying the surface. If you are postholing so much that filling each hole becomes onerous, you should put on snowshoes. If you did not bring snowshoes, maybe you should think about turning around and going home, and coming back another day.

Sorry for this rant. I just needed to vent on this issue.

 

[Tom Rankin]

If you did not bring snowshoes, maybe you should think about turning around and going home, and coming back another day.

Sorry for this rant. I just needed to vent on this issue.

Vent away!

As you may have noted, when the day warms up, snow shoes might not be needed in the morning, but in the afternoon. So the idea of turning around when you start post holing does not really work. Maybe this is one reason for the rule in NY?

 

[dug]

Why stop there? I mean, I hate the thin trail that develops, especially with today's snowshoes. So, take the time to widen the trail, you can actually improve the trail for the next person, rather than destroying the surface. If you are spending so much time trying to widen the trail that it becomes onerous, you should put on bigger snowshoes. If you did not bring big snowshoes, maybe you should think about turning around and going home, and coming back another day.

 

[teleskier]

This is why I'm quite content with the situation in the Adirondacks. The problem with leaving things up to people's discretion is that a lot of people have none. And the authorities do take into account the condition of the trails; when it's bullet-proof, wearing crampons will not bring a rebuke. I'm not saying it's perfect, but I do notice a difference in Mass and VT (my most frequent out-of-state destinations) vs. the Adirondacks.

 

[Elizabeth]

Vent away!

As you may have noted, when the day warms up, snow shoes might not be needed in the morning, but in the afternoon. So the idea of turning around when you start post holing does not really work. Maybe this is one reason for the rule in NY?

You make a good point. I am often tempted to leave my snowshoes behind when there is a nice morning crust. I carry them anyhow, and remind myself that weight-bearing exercise helps to prevent osteoporosis.

 

[Tim Seaver]

Funny Thing

The most postholed trail I have ever been on was the main drag to Mount Marcy, ravaged by a party wearing snowshoes during a thaw. The trail would have been safer and easier to follow if they had NOT worn snowshoes - but instead of foot-sized holes that you could walk around, there was a giant series of closely spaced 18 inch deep holes constantly sucking you towards them.

Good thing they followed "the law."

 

[leaf]

ooohhh... so many things i can say.. sooo many things. instead i'll laugh.

hahahahahhahaha.

ok, i'm done here.

 

[Becca M]

So far this year, it seems to me as though more people are wearing snowshoes and being more courteous about not creating postholes than years past...

 

[Mike P.]

And if you take the side of the summer hikers, who make up the majority of the hikers but not posters here, the winter hikers who create the monorail by wearing their snowshoes prevent the snow from melting sooner so the majority of the people can use the trail without the hazard of the monorail.

The monorail is the last thing to melt, except for Tucks, the ice gulch & a few other places. if winter hikers stayed off the trails, they would melt sooner & be easier for the majority of the hikers to use.

So if the summer throngs, (read if you wish, wimps who choose not to hike all year), can get by the last of the monorail, why does a few postholes bother people, especially people trying to tame the mountains in winter.

'I survived my ascent of Mt. Washington, I came & kicked butt with all my gear but a few postholes ruined my trip'

It's Spring, bring your shovels & remove the packed snow from the trails & help bring summer to the trails. If we all cleared a few feet, the C-Path to Pierce could be snow free in just a few weeks.

 

[wardsgirl]

I like it! Especially that he says 'please' and 'thank you."

 

[BF]

That sign is brilliant! Only it looked more like this...

 

[MichaelJ]

Time for the annual avatar change.

 

[Creag Nan Drochaid]

Snowshoes are easier

After we have all vented about the damn' ignorant selfish antisocial people who are so energetically stupid as to posthole a well-trod trail into a hazard where one false step and you'll break your leg...
Let us consider what we can do to encourage people to wear snowshoes. We. Ourselves, who get out all winter and likely visit more trailheads than any official.
A sticker, perhaps with a sketch that shows snowshoers walking in comfort and postholers struggling? Perhaps in cooperation with stores that sell snowshoes, or a place that rents them? I mean, when you can get adequate shoes for most conditions from Wal-mart there is little economic excuse for not wearing them. Perhaps an educational card to be handed out to postholers with the same info on it.
Whatever we give or post, it has to appeal to two aspects of their emotions:
1) self-interest, comfort, convenience. Snowshoeing is much easier than not.
2) shame at leaving the trail unhikable for others. When snowshoes are inexpensive and easier, what's the excuse for not using them?
Creag nan drochaid

 

[Neil]

Before becoming a post-hole is it a pre-hole?

What kind of hole is a sitz-mark?

Post-holier than thou.

 

[spider solo]

It makes me smile.
I remember a bunch of years ago someone asking if they should fill in the post holes.
It seemed so unique that people would worry about such things.

It just seems strange to live somewhere that there are actually laws about making holes in snow.

It will never cease to amaze me.


of course perhaps now we can know... "how many holes it takes to fill Albert Hall..."

 

[chinooktrail]

I would have to guess that whoever made the numerous and VERY deep postholes on the Carter Moriah Trail was really wishing they had snowshoes. Seriously, it looked as though they had a very long and very painful hike out.

 

[roadtripper]

The Forest Service could spend some money on programs to educate people on postholing in my opinion (and ya ya, I know they are cash-strapped already).

Even just adding some signs/displays on some of the trail billboards at parking lots would be helpful. A lot of winter hikers have no idea how much chaos postholing causes to others.

 

[dug]

I am being totally serious, and I do this rant every year this thread comes up, but:

-Why is it OK to demand that we don't posthole, but find it OK to slide down a trail, causing it to ice over and become dangerous?

-Why is it OK to break a trail in MSR snowhoes, causing more of an issue if I don't wear that brand?

-Why is it OK for everyone to take the same path, instead of trying to widen the trail to allow for skiing/bigger shoes?

-Why is it OK to use the BP bushwack, and take some crazy route that has a lot of curves in it, preventing me from skiing?

-Why is it OK that OK that we break the trail, but don't clean the snow off the branches for the taller hikers?

Now, I hate postholing and if you've ever been stuck in that situation (spring thaw, no shoes) it's a miserable experience. I seriously thought I was going to die one trip in the Kilkenny many, many, many moons ago. It sucks for the postholer, and it sucks for the people behind. There is no doubt here.

But, I don't get why it's OK to police one trail wrecking activity, potentially ruining someone's enjoyment, but not the other activities?

 

[skiguy]

Makes me wonder what Hikers did to vent their frustrations before the Internet.

 

[sierra]

Makes me wonder what Hikers did to vent their frustrations before the Internet.

Allow me to answer if I may. Before the internet, hikers would just go out and hike, they would encounter a variety of conditions and deal with them using whatever equipment and or skills they needed. The most beautifull part of those days, when the day was done, they relished in thier time in the mounatains and didnt waste any energy compaining about what others did or didnt do. Ah those where the days.