Fitness levels and training (What the HECK!!?)

[Stash]

I like the simple way

6 foot 155 lb and 50. Not a young or bulky guy in the least but I can carry a decent sized pack at a good pace all day long up and down most trails. For training I walk at a good pace with my dogs a few miles every day. A few times a day. Rain or shine.

 

[hikes-with-him]

Good answers...

Nope...it isn't a race, just trying to get more enjoyment due to less "oh my GAWD I'm going to DIE!" on that final push to the summit (or any steep and/or long part between the trail head and the summit...can you say FISHIN JIMMY going down!!)...

And...also want to increase my options for a day hike by not pooping out after only (only?!) 10 or 2 miles.

Thanks all, again. I think I need to bite the bullet and huff and puff more in the gym so I don't huff and puff so much on the trail

 

[TCD]

Good info on strength endurance; different from "max lift" and different from cardio! Climbers and fighters need strength endurance a lot. That's largely because we are trying to get smaller muscles to do hard things, like pulling body weight, or punching hard.

But for uphill hiking, you are using mostly big muscles, like glutes and quads. The muscles themselves probably have plenty of endurance.

I think The Hikers came closest: Climbing hills is the best training for climbing hills. Most fitness is "sports specific." Even a person who is very fit in a similar sport needs to train to excel in a different sport.

But I will differ on one thing. While there is nothing wrong with the stairclimber or the inclined treadmill, they are NOT the same as going up real stairs, or going up a real hill. In "real" climbing, you are moving your center of mass uphill. You are doing Work (in the physics sense; Force X Distance). On the equipment, your center of mass is basically staying in one place. You are pushing down pedals or a belt, but it's NOT the same thing.

If you want to test this, find a building near you with at least ten flights of stairs. At a modest pace, it will take you a couple minutes to trot up those ten floors. Do 2 minutes on the stairclimber. Cool down and recover, and then go trot up the ten floors. You will notice a DRASTIC difference in the amount of work.

I don't know where you live, or what "uphill" resources you have near you. If you have a tall building with stairs, or a decently long and steep hill on a road, get out of the gym and go train on that. You can design all sorts of workouts depending on the length of the hill or stairs. Do reps, vary paces, "fartlek" (speed play), carry weight, etc.. For weight, I recommend water in gallon plastic jugs in an old pack. It's nice and heavy, and it won't hurt you (I've carried rocks, but you end up with bruises). Also, you can drink the water at the top. And, most importantly, you can pour it out at the top, so you don't endanger your knees carrying the weight back downhill.

Good luck! (And you do look skinny...)

TCD

 

[The Hikers]

About food.......Trail food is great for picking up your energy as you go, but we have noticed BIG differences based on what we have eaten the night before hiking, and for breakfast on the day of hiking. If you have no reserves when you start out, you will fade quickly as soon as you burn off those calories.The old carb loading practice the night before seems to have a big effect on how we feel when we hit that steep grade.
So I would say don't feel guilty about a little over indulgence if you know you're going to work it off the next day.

 

[bikehikeskifish]

The stairmaster is not a perfect substitute for hiking. Just like a stationary bike isn't the perfect substitute for a bike. Bench pressing 135 pounds free is far harder than on a machine for the same reason the stairs in the building are harder than the stairmaster. I try to do as little leaning or holding on as possible while on the stairmaster - it is a lot harder that way.

The stairmaster is the best thing I have readily available on a daily basis. OldMan (Ed) walks up Pack Monadnock several mornings a week, but he lives close enough to make that practical.

The best advice you can get is probably to talk to the personal trainer(s) at the gym and tell them your goals and have a program custom-designed for you. When I raced, I had a coach, and we followed Joe Friel's Training Bible plan (based on the original work of Francesco Conconi) Don't forget that the purpose of training is to cause your body to adapt to the training. Once adapted, you either maintain, or you change it up to force further adaptation. Also, don't underestimate the power of rest days. That's when your body does the adapting. A lot of cyclists I raced with suffered badly about half way through the race year from over training / fatigue.

Tim

 

[Chip]

My 2 cents; Find a steep, short hill close to home or work (I have one at our highschool that I need to get back to) that's convenient and hike up and down that thing with a 30lb pack, like 40 or 50 "laps" 2 or 3 times a week. You'll be surprised at how much different it feels then the gym machines. People will think it's "odd", but it's not any odder than doing laps on a track or in a pool.

However, there will always be someone stronger and faster out there. Some people are built different.

 

[hikes-with-him]

About food.......Trail food is great for picking up your energy as you go, but we have noticed BIG differences based on what we have eaten the night before hiking, and for breakfast on the day of hiking. If you have no reserves when you start out, you will fade quickly as soon as you burn off those calories.The old carb loading practice the night before seems to have a big effect on how we feel when we hit that steep grade.
So I would say don't feel guilty about a little over indulgence if you know you're going to work it off the next day.

Interesting...I've always wondered if I'm overdoing it when hiking in the food area.

Usually, the night before is a big supper...often pizza or pasta or chinese/thai

B-fast the day is almost always: Bagel with PB, Grilled muffin, eggs/cheese.

Hiking foods: pop tarts, GORP (with chocolate of course), some sort of meat sandwich for lunch (I usually get a turkey and bacon wrap), "energy bars" (met rX biggies usually), and then other assorted stuff like this.

Maybe I'm just going into carb OD and then CRASH!! ?

 

[hikes-with-him]

Good luck! (And you do look skinny...)

TCD

Hmmmm....beginning to think TOOO skinny?

 

[kaseri]

Do you agree you do lower weight/higher reps then you would for explosive, fast-twitch efforts?

Tim

I disagree. As I said, strength endurance equals heavy weight, long duration and no rest.

 

[sherpakid]

Put in some miles

I am going to add my two cents and suggest putting in some running miles on the road. Last year I decided to take running a bit more seriously and ran my first marathon in October. Working out on a treadmill does not compare to running outside. I'm guessing that if you start putting in some miles on the road, you may be able to go a little further a little faster.

 

[LRiz]

I'm no exercise coach, but some longer-duration cardio work (i.e. workouts at 65-70% of max HR, working your way up into the 1-2 hour range) might do wonders for you. It does for me. I'm not always the runner I was this year (ran a 4 hour marathon in October) but in general I find that the seasons I'm regularly doing 10K and longer runs (i.e. something on that scale weekly, at least), I'm twice the hiker that I am the years I don't.

I know I have very little knowledge on the topic compared to most on this thread, but the long, slow cardio approach has worked wonders for me.

Several months back I read an interesting blog post about training for endurance by maximizing your aerobic system. Since then I've been focusing all of my mid-week workouts around maximum aerobic heart rate. Now that I'm running relatively comfortably again, this usually means that I go out running for an hour or two at lunch, four times per week. If I can't run, I'll head to the gym and do 2 or so hours on the elliptical/arc trainer.

Training via this approach hasn't quickened my pace, per se, but it's made it possible for me to hike for long distances in relative comfort.

Also, never underestimate the importance of proper fueling. If I'm going out for 14+ miles, I try to eat frequent, small (200 to 250 cal), high-carb portions to sustain my energy.

 

[kaseri]

Proper fueling is very important as well. Thats a whole other topic that's even more involved.

 

[bikehikeskifish]

I disagree. As I said, strength endurance equals heavy weight, long duration and no rest.

Would you please define, in terms of sets, reps, weight (% of 1 rep max), rest/recovery

STRENGTH

STRENGTH-ENDURANCE

I'm not saying (never did say) strength endurance does not involve heavy weights. Most cycling coaches and published materials I have read (I've not kept up since 2005 when I quit racing) do define strength-endurance as a higher rep, lower (but not low) weight than strength, which is a maximal, all out, explosive effort (attempt to recruit all the fast twitch fiber.)

Tim

 

[DougPaul]

My 2 cents; Find a steep, short hill close to home or work (I have one at our highschool that I need to get back to) that's convenient and hike up and down that thing with a 30lb pack, like 40 or 50 "laps" 2 or 3 times a week.

I used to use a local 220ft/.75mi hill for the same purpose. I'd walk/hike up and down at a decent pace with up to 40lbs on my back two or three times a week. Made a big difference on the hikes in the woods...

Doug

 

[Neil]

One way to think is in terms of number of reps. If each step on a hike is a rep, how many reps do you do on a dayhike?

In the gym, if you train for hiking, any exercise that challenges your hiking muscles with a resistance so high that you can only do 15-20 reps is a long way off from emulating hiking.

Some of the toughest and most endurant hikers I've hiked with are skinny with bean pole legs. They have tremendous reserves of endurance but little strength. They hike fast and go for 14 hours plus with up to 10,000 feet of elly gain in a day.

I would also look into getting a smaller pack.

 

[sapblatt]

Carrying less weight helps a lot - being more fit helps a lot - I would not worry so much about the specifics - but you need to do longer periods of slower cardio. Also - I have found that nothing trains for hiking like hiking - the more often you get out on the type of terrain you want to hike the better. And some stuff - like boulder strewn summit cones are never fast going. I did make the switch to lighter gear - but sadly not lighter body - and it makes a big difference. If the pack weight is not noticeable it is easier to hike...

 

[Rik]

Whenever I'm not hiking I walk backwards. Develops the muscles opposite from ones used hiking and keeps my hiking muscles fresh for the weekends.
I also eat very hard and fast. Try to really mash the food up with lots of hard chewing which is a good calorie burner. And I do crunches. Hope this helps.

 

[kaseri]

I've been following this thread via my phone so posting replies is a nightmare. once I get back from my climbing trip I'll gladly get into the details of training and nutrition with you.

 

[sherpakid]

Proper fueling is very important as well. Thats a whole other topic that's even more involved.

I think Kaseri makes a great point - Nutrion is equally important to training. During my initial long runs, I tried to train my body to run as far as it could before consuming fuel. I'd run nine miles before consuming any gels or power drinks - just plain water. At 11 miles I had a hard time recovering. I found that when I consumed fuel every 45 mins, I still felt fresh at 11 miles. Proper nutrition on the trail provides food for your muscles so you can go harder for a longer period of time and recover faster.

I'm putting my theory to the test next weekend though. I think training for long runs coupled with proper nutrition on the trail (good mix of electrolytes, carbs, proteins, etc...) will allow me to move faster for a longer period of time than workouts in the gym. Workouts in the gym are usually an hour or so. Hiking is an all day event. Long runs are more similar to long hikes (sans the pack) and condition the body well for hiking.

 

[Hikes4fun]

One way to think is in terms of number of reps. If each step on a hike is a rep, how many reps do you do on a dayhike?

In the gym, if you train for hiking, any exercise that challenges your hiking muscles with a resistance so high that you can only do 15-20 reps is a long way off from emulating hiking.

Some of the toughest and most endurant hikers I've hiked with are skinny with bean pole legs. They have tremendous reserves of endurance but little strength. They hike fast and go for 14 hours plus with up to 10,000 feet of elly gain in a day.

I would also look into getting a smaller pack.

A couple examples...PinPin..JayH...Mudhook...MG...JoeC..Doodles...there are more....lean.. light..fast...and aerobically superior...Then there's Rik...Can't figure him out
..