Flowed Land rescue this past weekend

[giggy]

Lots of people read this site without being members. They range from very experienced hikers checking on friends to complete newbies who are looking for any and all information about hiking. There is far more impact to your posts then you might imagine.

yep - I for one lurked from late 1990's to 2004. I still remember when it was on lexicom??? as the url...

Only joined b/c my own personal hiking dirtbag mafia started not hiking anymore. so I went looking for freinds..... and by god I found them.... aren't you all lucky.

 

[Tom Rankin]

Tabletop: summit ridge walk is long and flat;

Blake: true summit is a small col away and sports a sign that indicates direction to Pinnacle;

Sawteeth, Cliff, Porter, Iroquois, Emmons and Armstrong but not very often and only in winter;

...way too many bumps in the mountains is the real culprit...

Hmmmmm!

I think I've been to all of these places. I do not remember the long flat walk to Talbetop, but I think I remember getting to the sign.

I do remember the sign to Pinnacle.

Porter, only if not coming from Cascade.

Iroquois, you know you are there when you can see Shepherd's tooth!

Emmons, found the sign.

Sawteeth, yeah, that was a PITA in winter, TWICE! Previous hikers turned around early!

Cliff! Aargh! Took 3 tries!

You forgot Seymour!

 

[AOC-1]

Andy, Adam,

You should send the account of your adventure to the Editors of PEEKS, they may be interesd in publishing it.QUOTE]

The "winter hiking is risky" fallacy has often been noted here. But I can't help marveling at 5 pages of discussion about this non-incident. A hiker with overnight gear takes a wrong turn, realizes his mistake, and chooses a longer hike back to his car. Along the way he rests in his sleeping bag a few miles from the trailhead. The Franconia Ridge fatality this past weekend provides some stark lessons about the consequences of being unprepared. This one is a snoozer.

 

[Neil]

Andy, Adam,

You should send the account of your adventure to the Editors of PEEKS, they may be interesd in publishing it.QUOTE]

The "winter hiking is risky" fallacy has often been noted here. But I can't help marveling at 5 pages of discussion about this non-incident. A hiker with overnight gear takes a wrong turn, realizes his mistake, and chooses a longer hike back to his car. Along the way he rests in his sleeping bag a few miles from the trailhead. The Franconia Ridge fatality this past weekend provides some stark lessons about the consequences of being unprepared. This one is a snoozer.

Hiker carrying full overnight winter pack hunkers down for the night at minus 2 celsius. Hiker's friend calls rangers. Rangers haul ass in snowmobiles to find hiker comfortably ensconced in sleeping bag. Sheepish hiker drives home to wife and family.

I would recruit George Clooney, Bruce Willis and Nicholas Cage for this one.

 

[BlackSpruce]

Andy's hiking partner did the abolute right thing and it's wonderful that it turned out the way it did. Taking a chance wasn't worth it in that case. Better to be safe than sorry ALWAYS!

 

[ColdRiverRun]

Andy, Adam,

You should send the account of your adventure to the Editors of PEEKS, they may be interesd in publishing it.QUOTE]

The "winter hiking is risky" fallacy has often been noted here. But I can't help marveling at 5 pages of discussion about this non-incident. A hiker with overnight gear takes a wrong turn, realizes his mistake, and chooses a longer hike back to his car. Along the way he rests in his sleeping bag a few miles from the trailhead. The Franconia Ridge fatality this past weekend provides some stark lessons about the consequences of being unprepared. This one is a snoozer.

The fact that these two incidents happened so close and how the being prepared and not being prepared, making good decisions and not and there outcomes deserves 30 pages in my opinion. I think a story of a comparison of how things can go wrong relating to just that weekend would serve the general hiking population good. This one is getting so much attention because we know Andy and the social gathering that happened this weekend. The fact that Andy has many post on 3 forums and probably picked up a lot of things that helped get him home safe should be a proud factor of the people running the forums and its members.

One of the best things I saw this weekend, post hiking and gathering was that the first thing Monday morning still tired a thread was started "Lessons Learned" on Adkhighpeaks were a regular member started about things he learned new or relearned about winter hiking. It had about 35 posts by the end of the day even though there is threads all over about hiking safety. Much is just sharing just some personal tactics. I saw so many good decisions this weekend and discussions that I think there should be more such gatherings or more people attending each. And not just to watch Pete stand around the fire on ice and snow for half an hour barefoot. I actually saw no incidents of things like "summit fever", maybe besides myself with Seymour and it was passed around a great deal on the threads and then on Friday that the day was to be about enjoying the outdoors and getting together than about summiting anything. I think one of the first things me, Rik and Eric talked about were how tough the conditions were and that we should go reinforce those ideas but I don't know that we even needed too. Most people doubled up and did less on there own and had a great time doing it.

On Sunday me, Frodo, Mimi and Bob decided to go hike something easier together after having breakfast with a group at the Noonmark. We were pushing pretty good and Bob wasn't up for that pace and said as soon as we started that he was going to hike behind and that we should go ahead. As we climbed I noted his speed as comparison to ours and near the top I told the guys lets change plans and do Porter first, since I thought we would miss Bob on the spur if we did Cascade first, they quickly agreed and went we went and knocked out Porter. The moment we got back to the junction he was there about to head into the woods and we headed up together again. We all stayed together section hiking the exposed area with some really strong winds. We found a spot on the more easterly side just under the summit came together and made a run to touch the summit. Then came down the same way. Frodo gave out some great above tree line advice and we headed back down.

So there we were, most having never hiked with each other before: one from Quebec, one from Albany, NY and two others from eastern and western Mass who usually hike in the Whites having a blast and bringing all our best aspects together and having a great and safe hike. That hike alone is proof of the positive that comes from internet hiking and gathering forums and all it was is "just Cascade and Porter" for a few hours.

 

[WinterWarlock]

That was me with the Lessons Learned thread - there's a reason why there are debriefs after military operations...to review what went right, what went wrong, and what can be improved for next time. I sort of had that in mind, and as a result, received some useful feedback. Some won't work for me, and some will...it's my call to decide. But it helped, and I suspect it helped a few others too.

And as to the idea of more gatherings - I can only say, yea!

Scott

BTW - the Winter Warlock loves the Bumble avatar!

 

[DougPaul]

This one is a snoozer.

Agreed--but only because we know the outcome.

Andy could have been overdue due to some incapacitating injury too. His partner's reporting him to be overdue and the rangers' response was appropriate and fortunately unnecessary.

There is also the question of how long to wait before declaring someone overdue and how long to wait before sending the searchers out. (I don't want to divert the discussion, just note that this is also an issue.)

Doug

 

[mavs00]

Surprise, surprise........ Once again, I agree wholeheartedly with Cory (ColdRiverRun) again.

Also, I wonder where Andy, an admitted winter hiking novice with limited experience, got such a deep knowledge base to draw from in order to make such good decisions once he got into a situation he knew was potentially VERY SERIOUS and use it in a way that kept him safe.

Couldn't have been the internet, and forums just like THIS, could it .

I wonder?

 

[ADKdremn]

Also, I wonder where Andy, an admitted winter hiking novice with limited experience, got such a deep knowledge base to draw from in order to make such good decisions once he got into a situation he knew was potentially VERY SERIOUS and use it in a way that kept him safe.

Many years of hanging out here and the other two forums, spending many hours reading, asking questions and soaking everything in. I'll gladly give credit where credit is due.

 

[AOC-1]

Agreed--but only because we know the outcome.

Andy could have been overdue due to some incapacitating injury too. His partner's reporting him to be overdue and the rangers' response was appropriate and fortunately unnecessary.

There is also the question of how long to wait before declaring someone overdue and how long to wait before sending the searchers out. (I don't want to divert the discussion, just note that this is also an issue.)

Doug

I think a "better safe than sorry" approach is fine when deciding whether to declare someone overdue. Let the professionals sort out the appropriate response. Here, it was known the overdue hiker was not on the Calamity Brook trail. There's only one other trail heading in the same general direction from Flowed Land. Odds were he had simply taken a wrong turn. Of course, he might have suffered an incapacitating injury, but was this likely? He was just snowshoeing a trail below treeline. And, in any event, it wasn't particularly cold and he was equipped with overnight gear. My guess is the situation was fairly easy to figure out. The decision to respond immediately was probably influenced by availability of snow machines on that part of the trail. Had a more complicated response been required, I think they would have waited a bit to see if he walked out on his own.

 

[Skyclimber]

There is also the question of how long to wait before declaring someone overdue and how long to wait before sending the searchers out. (I don't want to divert the discussion, just note that this is also an issue.)

Doug

Many experienced Winter hikers will use the next day, if I'm not back approach before calling a Ranger, as they usually are prepared for the unexpected bivouack. In Andy's case he was prepared partially because he was spending the weekend in the backcountry. What if "he hadn't been spending the weekend though and didn't have the sleeping bag?" (Please no thread drift, just exampling) In this case, Dunbar did the right thing, it's Winter, blustery cold in the Winter Nights, snowing, different winter conditions variations. He gets back to the truck, expecting Andy has already left but his truck is still there. In the Winter, most will respond more quickly because of hyperthermia and frostbite. I'm sure the Rangers would much rather of got the call, finding Andy is just fine, rather than waiting the next day and find Andy in a whole different state, of serious injuries from the cold OR even death.

 

[ALGonquin Bob]

I often hike solo (planned), as I will this weekend. Someone told me last night that I carry too much stuff on winter hikes. This is a great reason for carrying extra warm clothing and/or a sleeping bag - you never know when you'll have to sit down on the trail and spend the night. Glad things turned out well.

 

[Adk_dib]

We usualy learn more from our mistakes (I am not saying that you made a mistake, its only a saying). I took a wrong turn on Gore last "summer" on a bright sunny day and was lucky to come out on route 28 not 13th lake. After that "wrong turn" I learned never to leave home without my compass. I was not prepared for spending a night in the summer heat so you were a lot smarter than I was.