Found a Bone. What to Do?

[Peakbagr]

Mavs00 is already taken.

 

[mavs00]

okay..... okay, we've had our GC jokes for the day. We're talking about finding bones in the woods, the degredation of human remains within the NE acidic soils, or post'r boy............. Hell, even the AT or the strange things hypethermia does to you on Algonquin in January.

Anything else, please................

{peakbagr, you not helping me, isn't this drifting OT, alot}

 

[Periwinkle]

Thanks for the advice Mavs -- and the good natured jokes at your expense -- I only wish you did look like Gil Grissom. I've got a thing for the silver haired foxes. Sean Connery is on my list too.

All kidding aside, I don't think there's an issue with me moving "remains". The dog had already moved the bone to bring it to me (I'm still flippin' over that one, darn retriever !). It was further moved when I put it in a tree.

I talked to a few more of our customers this afternoon, including an avid hunter/taxidemist and an officer on our local police force. I've got the okay to fetch the bone (no pun intended). I think PD is grateful that I'm not sending them all up an icy trail to then bushwhack in for what is statistically most likely an animal bone. But, the thing is, Mavs is 100% right. I don't know what it is from unless I do find an obvious animal carcass.

Once a few people had started in at lunch with "you don't know what it is -- what if it's a person?", I started to think I should have brought it out to make sure. I was thinking about the situation on Mt. Kanc.

So, I'm off in the morning to scout it out and bring out the "evidence". I'll GPS the position, but I do know exactly where it is. The hunter/taxidemist will be in at lunch to determine if it's animal. If he's not 100% positive, I have to call Fish & Game. If it is something else, then the officer and friends have to scare up some crampons and go for a walk in the woods.

I'll let you know what happens.

 

[HAMTERO]

i'm humbled, i like you guys. thanks

Hey, you're back!
Did that bone have any meat on it? I get pretty hungry when i'm hikin'.

Anybody want to go wackin'?

 

[Flatlander_SG]

Periwinkle,

Would you mind giving me a general idea where you were bushwacking when you found this bone?

Thanks....

 

[mavs00]

Thanks for the advice Mavs -- and the good natured jokes at your expense -- I only wish you did look like Gil Grissom. I've got a thing for the silver haired foxes. Sean Connery is on my list too.



So, I'm off in the morning to scout it out and bring out the "evidence". I'll GPS the position, but I do know exactly where it is. The hunter/taxidemist will be in at lunch to determine if it's animal. If he's not 100% positive, I have to call Fish & Game. If it is something else, then the officer and friends have to scare up some crampons and go for a walk in the woods.

I'll let you know what happens.

Silver hair I got, aplenty. I don't mean to be testy, I always get teased incessently about the GC thing, I don't even think I look anything like him. Lately my online "friends" started in on it. so sorry if I was brusk.

Dogs are forever bringing bones in, both human and animal. If you get photos and send them to me, I will ID them for you. if they were human longbones of only 12 inches long, the would have to be the forearm (radius & ulna) of a sub-adult. UNLIKELY. However, due to their skeletal structure most ruminant mammals (including white tailed deer and Moose) have Femurs and Humerus that are roughly that length. Check out -THIS SITE- for info on the human skeleton. Whenever you look at long bones, pay real close attention to the distal and proximal end. Humans, as bipeds, are very distinct from our quadruped friends.

Hope this helps.

 

[Periwinkle]

Thanks, Mavs. I'll send you a picture of it. I did take a quick look at the website. The only thing it kind of looks like is an ulna, but I can't really tell because one end is broken off. But, I'm still thinking that it looks more like something I've bought at a pet store to give to my dogs. It's thicker than I'd think a human bone would be, and almost flat on one side. My first assumption when I saw it was that it was critter. I'm still praying that it is.

There also hasn't been a missing person reported in this area in the past few years -- it's along Rt. 49 going into Waterville. Most of the cases of missing persons you've read about are assumed to be further north of here.

 

[forestgnome]

Excellent topic!

I also would take good pictures of the bones, with something of known size right next to it(pack of gum, lighter,etc.). Each time I've found bones I've scouted around to find more which confirmed the species, such as hooves (moose) and a skull(bear). But if still in doubt take pictures. Each year, hunters or hikers find yuck.

 

[Pete_Hickey]

I wouldn't be surprised if one can find pieces of human bones on Mt Washington. They can be found on the summit of Mt Marcy. Look in small depressions for small white-ish 'stones'. Some people scatter the ashes of their beloved to a summit. Bits of bones remain.

Fertilizer for the alpine plants.... calcium.... The cycle of life.

 

[spencer]

This is very interesting.

on many occasions I've found parts of moose and deer skeletons. There are often long bones (I presume leg bones).

Mavs, can you elaborate on the obvious differences between the biped and quadraped distal and proximal ends?

thanks,
spencer

 

[WhiteMTHike]

While bushwhacking the other day, my retriever brought me a bone. It wasn't obviously human. I assumed it was from a deer or moose carcass. I took it from him and stuck it up in a tree. It's a long bone, about 12", broken off at one end and a joint at the other.

We were discussing this today during lunch and the concensus was that I should have hiked it out. I can go back for it with plastic bag and bring it out. I can scout around where the dogs were and see if I can find a carcass to determine what it might be. Ewwww. Other than that, what should I do with it? Any thoughts?

It sounds like you have good intentions but I agree with what Sapblatt and others have said. If it's not human just leave it be; all part of nature's cycle.

 

[mavs00]

This is very interesting.

on many occasions I've found parts of moose and deer skeletons. There are often long bones (I presume leg bones).

Mavs, can you elaborate on the obvious differences between the biped and quadraped distal and proximal ends?

thanks,
spencer

Without getting into a long dissertation that will equally bore 99% of the readers and drift to the OT world we so dread, NOT REALLY. I can give a brief detail though, and some may find it very of limited help out there. ONCE AGAIN, huge disclaimer, I am not and anthropologist, only someone that whose job puts them into contact with hundred of bones a year, both animal and human. (and yes, at my ME office we literally get hundreds of "false finds" a year called in by well meaning folks. We never mind, because on occasion, they are human).

Spence, here is a quick example. Take a femur. The human femur (long bone of the upper leg) is huge, the longest bone in the body. It must be so in order to stabilize the entire weight of our body as we stand on two feet. Our pelvic girdle (hip joint) has a really stable (deep) -BALL & SOCKET- joint. The femoral head (the ball at the top) fits neatly with pelvic joint in order to enable the lower extremities to support the upper mass during movement.

Ruminants (hoofed animals, such as deer, moose, ect), as quadrepeds, pelvic girdle is completely different. I believe (again, no expert here) that it is set for power more than stabilization. The femur of a these animals therefore do not have the weight strain of upright animal and are less hardy (smaller). -HERE- is a mock up of a deer pelvic region. It's not a real one, but its a good approximation, but you get an idea of the difference. Particularly in the way the proximal (top) end of the femur fits into the hip joint and how the end of it is not the pronounced "ball" found in the human one.

Sorry this is so long and boring, but he asked. For practical matter, if it's short, stout, curved and has a weak ball on the end, it's likely animal femur. If it's long, straight, thick with a pronounced ball socket, GET HELP.

Remember, that's just one end, of one bone.

 

[mavs00]

For anyone following the saga, Periwinkle sent me some photos of her "discovery". Here was my response;

I checked the photos out. HOLY big bones bateman. Definitely NON-HUMAN. The are anatomically very deer like, but they are so stout they also appear to me to be very Bovine-like (cow). I can only assume that they are moose. We have no moose in the area I live, so I am unfamiliar with them.

It's a good deduction though. Basically a moose is a very cow-like deer so it would make sense that the bones would be significantly bigger.

In any event, they are certainly NON-HUMAN and do not need the attention of authorities. 100% positive of that.

 

[Periwinkle]

Glad to know for certain it's a most likely a moose.

I lucked out this morning. I followed the dogs tracks and found larger bones scattered about to take pictures of (using my boot as scale in the pictures). This gave Mavs a lot more to go by that the one original 12" long bone that was missing one joint end. One of the bones I found this morning was a huge leg joint. If it was humanoid, it would have to be Big Foot!

Mr. Moose may have been hit on Rt. 49, ran into the woods and died or slid down the icy cliff above where the rest of the bones where. Whatever got to him had a field day -- no hoofs, no head, no rib cage, just a few bones over a 50 ft. area (that I could find).

Well, I can sleep tonight with no guilt or doubt wondering about that one lone bone.

And many thanks, Mavs, for your expert advice and time! I greatly appreciate it!

 

[Pete_Hickey]

While everyone knows about werewolves, very few re familiar with waremoose. Yes, a man who turns into a moose under a half moon, and goes about.... well, we won't speak of that here.

So, if the bone was found around the time of a half moon, it still could be a human bone, in the moose phase.

 

[audrey]

Pete's absolutely right. You can see one here:

http://www.weremoose.com/morphs/

Thanks, all, for the entertainment. Who else could get so much mileage out of an old moose bone?

 

[Louis]

yeah right...

Mavs we all know what knowledge your'e hiding... the real truth will soon be known

http://edition.cnn.com/2006/TECH/science/01/27/malaysia.bigfoot.ap/index.html

 

[Periwinkle]

Thanks, all, for the entertainment. Who else could get so much mileage out of an old moose bone?

Maybe I really do need to go for the winter 4's, rather than go 'whackin' with the pups. But, maybe Genie would like a nice big moose bone? I know where she can score one!

And thanks for the weremoose bit -- you know I'm guillible -- this spot has just been ruled out as a perfectly nice, legal, backcountry campsite. Can't risk weremoose vistitations!

All in all, an excellent lesson learned: the next time the Yogi dog brings me a lone bone, I'll save myself time and soul-searching by scouting out for the source. I've learned a good deal about bones, bone scatter, and critter anatomy from our own resident CSI guy!

 

[LtHiker]

Sort of related, I was dayhiking in Vermont up near Lake Champlain one day yeasrs ago, I stumbled upon a pile of bones. Freaked me out. After I ran I decided to go back. I discovered that they were deer and assorted animal bones. A BIG pile of them. After investigating further I saw a hunting cabin thru the woods. Hunters must have been dumping bones there for years and year

 

[Pete_Hickey]

...bones.... A BIG pile of them. ......... a hunting cabin thru the woods.

You didn't investigate the cabin too well, did you. If you had, you probably would have seen an alter and strange pentagon symbols.

The bones you saw, were not there from hunters. They were the bones of virgin deer and moose, sacrificed to the Puun-Gaa.