Freedom of the New England Hills

[iagreewithjamie]

You also have to be willing to leave your family / loved ones for significant chunks of time.... When someone spends the weekend playing in the mountains, there's probably a good chance there's a person (or people) back at home feeling lonely and worried. Sure, some families climb/hike/backpack together, but let's face it, most don't. Freedom of the hills, like any freedom, comes with a price.

Are you kidding? I'm 99% certain my wife loves every second that I'm not at home getting in her way.

 

[hikerbrian]

I think the title is a misnomer and misleading to the topic. As nice a ring it has, it has nothing to do with freedom and nothing to do with hills... I do object to setting some sort of elitism to our sport and calling it a name associated with freedom combined with the quaint image of hills. Poetic yes, descriptive no.

Hey Stan,
If you read back to my post #15, you can see exactly where the title of this thread and list is derived from: Mountaineering: The Freedom of the Hills. If you have not read the book, then I expect you would not get the reference. But the title of this thread and list really is quite appropriate, considering the focus on skills contained within that book, and the geographic location this forum speaks to. On the other hand, if you've read the book, and having read it you think the book title is "elitist," has "nothing to do with hills," and lacks "wit," then feel free to write to The Mountaineers to complain.

 

[sierra]

You also have to be willing to leave your family / loved ones for significant chunks of time. I hate to point out the elephant in the room, but this hobby of ours can be an extremely selfish one. Most (all?) hobbies are by their very nature selfish. However if your hobby is piano, or reading, or woodworking, then your family is probably, at most, two rooms or two floors away. But playing in the mountains involves longs drives and a decent amount of risk. And looking at the outings listed in the first post, now you're talking some serious driving, risk, and multiples days away from home, in questionable weather. Not trying to get all Oprah on you, but it takes a certain amount of selfishness to do these things on a regular basis. Of course everyone's family situation and social situation is unique. But doing enough rock climbing and ice climbing to get somewhat good at it, and doing multi-day winter backpacks, etc....these things are not rocket science, most people could do them given the time. But there's a serious time commitment involved. When someone spends the weekend playing in the mountains, there's probably a good chance there's a person (or people) back at home feeling lonely and worried. Sure, some families climb/hike/backpack together, but let's face it, most don't. Freedom of the hills, like any freedom, comes with a price.

Disclaimer, I'm not married and have no kids. I find this statement to be frankly hard to understand. Are you saying you have to be with your family all the time? That you cannot find the time away to pursue what you love? If this is true maybe its the people your leaving at home that are selfish.

 

[hikerbrian]

What you're describing is attitude and confidence.

Hey Lawn Sale,
Glad you're enjoying the discussion. Anyway, NOT just attitude and confidence, but competance. I agree completely that one's ability to keep their head in a difficult situation can be the difference between life and death. But too many people head off on adventures big and small with too much confidence and not enough competance, with disastrous results. When I talk about completing an objective "in good style," I'm talking about putting in the requisite time and energy to gain the physical and psychological skills to do it safely. This may mean years of training for any one of the items on the list. And it's not about "proving [one]self" to others. Anyone who has been doing this for any length of time has most likely realized that no one else gives a crap. Anyone who thinks anyone else is going to care that they climbed Moby Grape is in for a rude awakening. The same can be said for each of the objectives I listed: a negligible number of people outside the extremely small mountaineering community have heard of any of the objectives on this list.

 

[jfb]

Hey Stan,
If you read back to my post #15, you can see exactly where the title of this thread and list is derived from: Mountaineering: The Freedom of the Hills. If you have not read the book, then I expect you would not get the reference. But the title of this thread and list really is quite appropriate, considering the focus on skills contained within that book, and the geographic location this forum speaks to.

I'll agree 100%. I've read the book and knew from the start that the thread was not really about freedom, but about developing a list of New England classics that could be used by an individual to judge his or her proficiency as a mountaineer.

 

[sierra]

I'll agree 100%. I've read the book and knew from the start that the thread was not really about freedom, but about developing a list of New England classics that could be used by an individual to judge his or her proficiency as a mountaineer.

You still don't get it, Freedom of the Hills is the all about having the skills to hike and climb freely in the hills. Basically learn everything in the book and you got it, that was the premis of both the book and this thread.

 

[jfb]

You still don't get it, Freedom of the Hills is the all about having the skills to hike and climb freely in the hills. Basically learn everything in the book and you got it, that was the premis of both the book and this thread.

I agree that's what the book is about, but I still think that's not what this thread is about.

 

[Tom_Murphy]

So which mountaineering skills can not be attained in New England? OR, conversely, which mountaineering skills are required for New England?

Freedom of the New England Hills - a list of New England classics that test a person's proficiency as a mountaineer

Mountaineering skills and knowledge
Clothing and Equipment
Camping and Food
Physical Conditioning
Navigation
Wilderness Travel
Leave No Trace
Belaying
Rappelling
Alpine Rock Climbing Technique
Rock Protection
Leading on Rock
Aid and Big Wall Climbing
Snow Travel and Climbing
Glacier Travel and Crevasse Rescue
Alpine Ice Climbing
Waterfall and Mixed Climbing
Expedition Climbing
Safety (I assume avalanche awareness falls into this category)
First Aid
Mountain Geology
The Cycle of Snow
Mountain Weather

Classic New England Trips
1. Three-day winter Presi traverse
2. Summiting Washington via any of the ice routes in Huntington Ravine, having led at least one pitch.
3. Whitney G or Moby Grape on Cannon Cliff, having led at least one pitch.
4. Baxter Peak and the Knife's Edge ascent in winter conditions.
5. Any backcountry loop or traverse that requires 5 days or more of winter travel.
6. Bushwhacking the Captain or Vose Spur in winter

 

[Puma concolor]

Are you kidding? I'm 99% certain my wife loves every second that I'm not at home getting in her way.

This.

I was gone 3.5 weeks last summer (2012) while out west and am planning 3 weeks on Denali in 2015. Quite sure I miss home more than home misses me.

 

[bikehikeskifish]

Home definitely misses me more than I miss home when I am on an (extended, or even a series of day) hiking, cycling or fishing trip. Likewise, when my wife takes the kids to her mom's, for example (leaving me home as I have to work), I enjoy the complete freedom of the remote control

Tim

 

[Lawn Sale]

Hey Lawn Sale,
Glad you're enjoying the discussion. Anyway, NOT just attitude and confidence, but competance. I agree completely that one's ability to keep their head in a difficult situation can be the difference between life and death. But too many people head off on adventures big and small with too much confidence and not enough competance, with disastrous results. When I talk about completing an objective "in good style," I'm talking about putting in the requisite time and energy to gain the physical and psychological skills to do it safely. This may mean years of training for any one of the items on the list.

I'm on board with this completely, and you're right. Competence is lacking in a lot of people leading to disaster.

And it's not about "proving [one]self" to others. Anyone who has been doing this for any length of time has most likely realized that no one else gives a crap. Anyone who thinks anyone else is going to care that they climbed Moby Grape is in for a rude awakening. The same can be said for each of the objectives I listed: a negligible number of people outside the extremely small mountaineering community have heard of any of the objectives on this list.

If this is the case, then why the references to any 'objectives' at all? Objectives establish an order, and to be in an order is to bend and conform to someone else's criteria, thus removing an aspect of the freedom discussed.

I don't need to climb Huntington's to get to the top of Mt Washington, there are other routes, just as an example. If I encounter an obstacle, and I have on too many occasions, then I find a way to address the obstacle to reach my objective. I have bypassed climbing cliffs solo with a pack to reach the top, why would I needlessly risk damage by not seeking another avenue?

But I agree the basic skillset needed to achieve the freedom of which you speak is necessary, just not sure it's as encompassing as described previously.

 

[hikerbrian]

Why the references to any 'objectives' at all? Objectives establish an order, and to be in an order is to bend and conform to someone else's criteria, thus removing an aspect of the freedom discussed.

I don't need to climb Huntington's to get to the top of Mt Washington, there are other routes, just as an example.

The 4k'ers in New England are unique in that there is a very well established and easy (class I) trail to the top of each of them. This is not true of many other mountain ranges, where varying degrees of technical skill are required to reach certain summits. Furthermore, in and out of New England, there is more than one route to each peak, and some routes require a high degree of mountaineering skill. The objectives I've identified are not meant to force a person to conform, but to identify weaknesses which, if overcome, would open up additional possibilities for mountains and routes all over the world.

 

[hikerbrian]

You also have to be willing to leave your family / loved ones for significant chunks of time. I hate to point out the elephant in the room, but this hobby of ours can be an extremely selfish one. Most (all?) hobbies are by their very nature selfish. However if your hobby is piano, or reading, or woodworking, then your family is probably, at most, two rooms or two floors away. But playing in the mountains involves longs drives and a decent amount of risk. And looking at the outings listed in the first post, now you're talking some serious driving, risk, and multiples days away from home, in questionable weather. Not trying to get all Oprah on you, but it takes a certain amount of selfishness to do these things on a regular basis. Of course everyone's family situation and social situation is unique. But doing enough rock climbing and ice climbing to get somewhat good at it, and doing multi-day winter backpacks, etc....these things are not rocket science, most people could do them given the time. But there's a serious time commitment involved. When someone spends the weekend playing in the mountains, there's probably a good chance there's a person (or people) back at home feeling lonely and worried. Sure, some families climb/hike/backpack together, but let's face it, most don't. Freedom of the hills, like any freedom, comes with a price.

A lot of interesting discussion points here. There are many reasons most people can't or won't commit to even a single item on this list: family commitments, money (arguably the blue whale in the room, and I didn't even include an aid/big wall objective), fear, physical limitations, psychological limitations, and many others. The same can be said of nearly any other endeavor that requires real time and effort. That doesn't make these endeavors less valid. The seven summits are the seven summits, regardless of one's family situation. (Not that I have ANY desire at all to work towards the seven summits. I don't.)

But I disagree with your suggestion that "most people could do" all of the items on the list given time. An extremely small fraction of the population will ever have the physical and mental abilities required to lead several pitches of 5.8 with a full trad rack. An extremely small fraction will have the abilities required to haul a full pack over exposed peaks for several days in horrific weather. Whether it's risk tolerance, physical ability, whatever, most people simply will never do it, and it's disingenuous to suggest the only limiting factor is time. Does that make this list "elitist?" Yes, absolutely. In my opinion, anyone who completes this list is an elite mountaineer, at least by New England standards. But as I've said many times, this list isn't about establishing who is or isn't an elite mountaineer. Who cares, really. It's about gaining perspective, and sometimes moving out of your comfort zone.

 

[Billy]

hikerbrian, in my previous post, when I said "most people could do them", I meant most people who hike. I should've been more precise. Besides that clarifying statement, I stand by every word of my post, as I'm sure you do of your post(s). You will not convince me otherwise, nor will I convince you otherwise. We'll shake cyber-hands and call it a day.

 

[hikerbrian]

Hey Billy, I left some important items off my last post - hard to believe I'm sure, but I'm trying to keep my posts reasonably brief, which is hard because this topic is meaningful to me. Anyway, aside from your clarification - which I still disagree with, but am happy to shake cyber hands on and agree to disagree - your post is important and makes several good points. You're absolutely right, being competant in any of the listed items requires real commitment. You can't just roll into the mountains some February and knock of Pinnacle gully. You have to get after it week after week after week, in the rock gym, at the crags, and eventually in the ravine. Depending on your family situation, this may represent a HUGE opportunity cost. My kids are 3 and 5, and the truth is I may not get to some of these until they leave for college. And then who knows where my physical abilities and motivation will be. The reason I still like this list is, among other things, it keeps me humble and reminds me there is plenty still to learn in the Northeast.

 

[blacknblue]

You also have to be willing to leave your family / loved ones for significant chunks of time. I hate to point out the elephant in the room, but this hobby of ours can be an extremely selfish one. Most (all?) hobbies are by their very nature selfish. However if your hobby is piano, or reading, or woodworking, then your family is probably, at most, two rooms or two floors away. But playing in the mountains involves longs drives and a decent amount of risk. And looking at the outings listed in the first post, now you're talking some serious driving, risk, and multiples days away from home, in questionable weather. Not trying to get all Oprah on you, but it takes a certain amount of selfishness to do these things on a regular basis. Of course everyone's family situation and social situation is unique. But doing enough rock climbing and ice climbing to get somewhat good at it, and doing multi-day winter backpacks, etc....these things are not rocket science, most people could do them given the time. But there's a serious time commitment involved. When someone spends the weekend playing in the mountains, there's probably a good chance there's a person (or people) back at home feeling lonely and worried. Sure, some families climb/hike/backpack together, but let's face it, most don't. Freedom of the hills, like any freedom, comes with a price.

Kudos to Billy for being brave enough to state what was sure to be an unpopular and misunderstood idea. I agree whole-heartedly.

Pursing a hobby can be healthy or destructive. Some people have exceptional abilities -- including natural skill, financial sustainability, lack of social and family obligations -- to pull it off and become exceptionally accomplished. For most people, with more modest skill, a 9-to-5 middle class job, a few kids, being a youth soccer coach, church obligations, PTA meetings, et cetera... it would be unhealthy to pursue many of these goals. People in this category are probably never climbing Katahdin in the winter, much less Rainer or Denali, no matter how much they want to. They aren't ever doing the Grid or Red-lining, either, unless it comes at a steep/destructive cost to the rest of their lives.

One of the reasons I don't celebrate a big accomplishment of somebody I don't know is that I don't know which category they fall into, and I don't want to pat them on the back if their family/neighbors/community back home is less well off because of their hobby.

FWIW, I feel pretty blessed to have had the opportunity to hike/climb quite a few mountains from Maine to California (and a few beyond). I feel a certain freedom that comes with feeling competent, but now as a busy family man, I know that any aspirations to grid or climb Denali are staying on the shelf right next to my mountaineering books. Getting out a few times a year is about where I am, and, frankly, I'm alright with that.

 

[skiguy]

Kudos to Billy for being brave enough to state what was sure to be an unpopular and misunderstood idea. I agree whole-heartedly.

Pursing a hobby can be healthy or destructive. Some people have exceptional abilities -- including natural skill, financial sustainability, lack of social and family obligations -- to pull it off and become exceptionally accomplished. For most people, with more modest skill, a 9-to-5 middle class job, a few kids, being a youth soccer coach, church obligations, PTA meetings, et cetera... it would be unhealthy to pursue many of these goals. People in this category are probably never climbing Katahdin in the winter, much less Rainer or Denali, no matter how much they want to. They aren't ever doing the Grid or Red-lining, either, unless it comes at a steep/destructive cost to the rest of their lives.

One of the reasons I don't celebrate a big accomplishment of somebody I don't know is that I don't know which category they fall into, and I don't want to pat them on the back if their family/neighbors/community back home is less well off because of their hobby.

FWIW, I feel pretty blessed to have had the opportunity to hike/climb quite a few mountains from Maine to California (and a few beyond). I feel a certain freedom that comes with feeling competent, but now as a busy family man, I know that any aspirations to grid or climb Denali are staying on the shelf right next to my mountaineering books. Getting out a few times a year is about where I am, and, frankly, I'm alright with that.

Excellent post.To be honest with all due respect to the OP although your original criteria is good I find it to be arbitrary. Although a good general guideline it only takes into account assuming a framework base upon a certain starting ability. As stated above by blacknblue "some people have exceptional abilities".

 

[Puma concolor]

Slippery slope here. Might want to rope up before going any further.

Straying a bit off topic with the line of discussion about life obligations and distant travel but I have to throw in my two cents as this is a subject that is close to heart. I think it is somewhat of a fallacy to say that you are automatically restricted from distant peaks simply because you fall into the working family guy category. Without yammering too much about myself, it all comes down to your specific situation and what other things you are willing to give up to make it happen. I have dealt with a lot of snide comments from various folks over the years about this trip or that trip, and really, most of them don't know what other concessions I've made in terms of life or financial decisions. Running off across the country while my poor wife is stuck home all by herself taking care of the kids. That's all they see. They think or suggest I am being selfish primarily because doing what I do would be or feel selfish for them. But those closest to me are fine with my mountain travel and actively encourage it because they know how important it is to me. And they know what I do the rest of the year. I pretty much exist on three levels ... work, family life and mountains. Most folks who aren't into the mountains can't relate to that.

 

[Chugach001]

Billy - Kudos to you for sharing your thoughts.

The older I get - the older my kids get - the more I agree with you. I chased fun, challenge and adventure around the world and the best I've ever found is right here with my tweens / teens. And no forced bivi's required.

 

[sierra]

This thread has been interesting and has shown different views on the topic. My way of looking at this is, for some the mountains provide a hobby. People in this category can fall into a wide range of skill levels. For some the mountains are and have been the major focus of their lives. The latter tends to reach higher levels of skill. This is simply due to both dedication and having the time to work on their skillset. At the end of the day, you can be happy being either. Perspective is a personal thing to us all, someone could be walking through the mall with their 5 kids thinking, '' I am so lucky" and I'm walking by them with my supplies from EMS thinking " I bet that poor ******* hardly ever gets out".