FYI: Northern Pass High Voltage Transmission Project
- Thread starter Waumbek
- Start date
Help Support vftt.org:
http://www.unionleader.com/energy/F...rthern-Pass-lines-in-White-Mountains-09072017
U.S. Forest Service recommends permit to bury Northern Pass lines in White Mountains
U.S. Forest Service recommends permit to bury Northern Pass lines in White Mountains
http://indepthnh.org/2017/09/28/epa...-may-cost-a-bit-more-but-better-for-wetlands/
Interesting, the EPA had signed off on the project but is recommending more burial in the north country. The NH DES had similar comments previously and would not sign off on the project but since the new governor put in his hand picked DES director, that objection seems to have gone away.
This would make a big difference on the impact to northern NH and I expect many objections to the project would be dropped by local towns and residents. There is a new batch of folks objecting as the details on the burial project come out.
I guess it comes down to how confident NP is on if they have the votes on the SEC. I would expect they have spent a lot of time figuring out how each SEC member is going to vote, recent PR is they are rush to get it over which implies that they think they have the votes but the SEC has delayed the project votes until 2018 which implies they don't have full control of the board.
Interesting, the EPA had signed off on the project but is recommending more burial in the north country. The NH DES had similar comments previously and would not sign off on the project but since the new governor put in his hand picked DES director, that objection seems to have gone away.
This would make a big difference on the impact to northern NH and I expect many objections to the project would be dropped by local towns and residents. There is a new batch of folks objecting as the details on the burial project come out.
I guess it comes down to how confident NP is on if they have the votes on the SEC. I would expect they have spent a lot of time figuring out how each SEC member is going to vote, recent PR is they are rush to get it over which implies that they think they have the votes but the SEC has delayed the project votes until 2018 which implies they don't have full control of the board.
Hydro Quebec has been doing a lot of behind the scenes lobbying with Mass and CT politicians to develop a market for the power from NP. Mass has a rule in place for many years that excluded hydro power produced by projects like NP as counting towards the Mass Renewable Power goals. This type of hydro is generally regarded as "brown" hydro in that some political body has decided that the environmental and social impacts of project exceed the environmental benefits. This decision made years ago is definitely a big impact on the Mass power market as the cost of HQ hydro power is far less then other renewables like wind and solar. It is also available 24/7 unlike wind and solar. Mass is currently going out for a request for proposals for a large block of renewable power and anyone being awarded this contract get a guaranteed long term contract for power and the ability to have the ratepayers fund the construction. There have been numerous bidders from all over the region https://macleanenergy.com/83d/83d-bids/.
This is not the only game in town but its a big one and NP is definitely very interested in getting the contract. Unfortunately for them the timing doesn't seem to be lining up as the NH state decision if the project can be built after the Mass RFP second cut is made http://www.unionleader.com/article/20171011/NEWS05/171019889/1028/NEWS05.
NP has also been cut out of at least one other renewable power RFP. Its not the end as the parent company of NP has a lot of political influence and most likely could push some other state to another renewable buy. This was probably a good bet until the administration announced that they are scuttling the EPA Clean Power Plan regulations and encouraging coal powered plants to remain in business longer which will most likely put a pause in any renewable efforts in the region as it will just make the New England region even more economically disadvantaged compared to other regions of the country burning high carbon fuels.
Northern Utilities CEO and management has bet their prestige and most likely jobs on NP getting built, if they don't get in on the Mass RFP the likelihood of NP getting built could really slam their financials.
This is not the only game in town but its a big one and NP is definitely very interested in getting the contract. Unfortunately for them the timing doesn't seem to be lining up as the NH state decision if the project can be built after the Mass RFP second cut is made http://www.unionleader.com/article/20171011/NEWS05/171019889/1028/NEWS05.
NP has also been cut out of at least one other renewable power RFP. Its not the end as the parent company of NP has a lot of political influence and most likely could push some other state to another renewable buy. This was probably a good bet until the administration announced that they are scuttling the EPA Clean Power Plan regulations and encouraging coal powered plants to remain in business longer which will most likely put a pause in any renewable efforts in the region as it will just make the New England region even more economically disadvantaged compared to other regions of the country burning high carbon fuels.
Northern Utilities CEO and management has bet their prestige and most likely jobs on NP getting built, if they don't get in on the Mass RFP the likelihood of NP getting built could really slam their financials.
All sorts of news coming out almost daily but the real news is the schedule of the public deliberation by the SEC
http://www.unionleader.com/energy/N...sets-12-days-of-public-deliberations-11222017
Stock up on popcorn as these sessions and the associated discussions will seal the fate of the project one way or another. If, as some speculate, NP has already figured they have the votes through political ties (and a heaping helping of contributions over the years) the sessions will go one way while if its still in doubt, the approach will head in an entirely opposite direction. I doubt the sessions will get curtailed by the determination that one aspect of the project makes it approvable
http://www.unionleader.com/energy/N...sets-12-days-of-public-deliberations-11222017
Stock up on popcorn as these sessions and the associated discussions will seal the fate of the project one way or another. If, as some speculate, NP has already figured they have the votes through political ties (and a heaping helping of contributions over the years) the sessions will go one way while if its still in doubt, the approach will head in an entirely opposite direction. I doubt the sessions will get curtailed by the determination that one aspect of the project makes it approvable
CMP in Maine touting a lower cost alternative. They actually went out and bought additional right of way for the new line to where it would hook up to the HQ grid
http://www.pressherald.com/2017/12/06/cmp-touts-its-bid-to-build-transmission-line-through-maine/
http://www.pressherald.com/2017/12/06/cmp-touts-its-bid-to-build-transmission-line-through-maine/
Hammerdee
Member
Looks like one Vermont project may be in trouble; it was aimed more at transmitting NY wind power than hydro:
https://vtdigger.org/2017/12/10/developer-drops-troubled-bid-power-line-lake-champlain/
https://vtdigger.org/2017/12/10/developer-drops-troubled-bid-power-line-lake-champlain/
Raven
Well-known member
Ashland pushing back. Voters have said twice they do NOT want NP.
http://www.laconiadailysun.com/newsx/local-news/109956-ashland-looking-at-ordinance-to-stop-northern-pass
http://www.laconiadailysun.com/newsx/local-news/109956-ashland-looking-at-ordinance-to-stop-northern-pass
Eversource Seeks Northern Pass Workforce As It Awaits State Approval(NHPR)
Heard this today on the way to work.
Tim
They have been promising local excavation and trucking contractors for years that when it gets approved, they will be given as much work as they can handle. The local I got this from was planning to retire after the project and was sitting on a yard full of equipment paying loans for work that didn't come for a couple of construction seasons. He still plans to support it if he can find folks to drive for him. There is a major shortage of labor in the area and not lot of accommodations, it will definitely be a boom town if it goes. I expect the Balsams is going to regret linking with NP approval as they will have a tough time getting labor as NP will be paying a lot more. It happened when PNGTS went in, a lot of locals made a couple of years of pay during construction and it was gone within a few months of the end of the project. There was a wave of divorces about that time.
The actual skilled work is all specialized out of state union contractors. IBEW has a token training program so they can staff locals as apprentices.
The actual skilled work is all specialized out of state union contractors. IBEW has a token training program so they can staff locals as apprentices.
Raven
Well-known member
Unfortunately this fact is not really advertised when jobs are promised. They don't tell you they already have the skilled labor lined up.
This is far more a PR effort to hopefully push some members of the SEC to vote their way then a real effort to staff the project. They decided early on to use union labor on the skilled work. Last thing I knew there was only one IBEW local in NH and it had limited members. HVDC work is specialized and buried even more so. That works is already locked in with an out of state national firm. Cianbro in Maine is non union and does do it but expect the Eversource would have a riot from their unions if Cianbro was allowed to bid. I would speculate that the proposed CMP line in Maine would be a Cianbro project as they did a major line upgrade through Maine a few years ago. Eversource did do a carve out for site work and excavation for NP and that's going to suck up every laborer trucker and equipment operator in the region, it keeps the local politicians who sold their souls in office.
There could be some environmental jobs acting as site inspector to try to prevent the project from doing more damage than necessary.
There could be some environmental jobs acting as site inspector to try to prevent the project from doing more damage than necessary.
http://indepthnh.org/2017/12/14/nor...sagree-over-cost-of-burying-more-of-the-line/
Interesting that HQ is planning on burying 12 miles of NP on the Canadian side of the border. More interesting is the cost per mile which is much lower than NP had claimed. As far as I know, no party has really done any preliminary boring along any possible road alignments to establish underground conditions in Coos county so it comes down to whose opinion not based on facts should be used to justify a long term scar on the land in northern NH.
Interesting that HQ is planning on burying 12 miles of NP on the Canadian side of the border. More interesting is the cost per mile which is much lower than NP had claimed. As far as I know, no party has really done any preliminary boring along any possible road alignments to establish underground conditions in Coos county so it comes down to whose opinion not based on facts should be used to justify a long term scar on the land in northern NH.
Raven
Well-known member
The fact that they plan to bury the line across the border in Canada but not in NH is of course plain and simple BS. Arrogant BS.
Push back from Massachusetts:
https://commonwealthmagazine.org/opinion/hydro-quebec-power-not-want/
Hydro Quebec would prefer you did not know about the devastation their dams are causing for native populations of people in Canada. Supporting NP is supporting this.
FYI, NHPRs OutsideIn radio show did 4 half hour stories in depth on the HQ dams and the impact to the tribes and environment of the area. http://outsideinradio.org/powerline/
I havent had time to listen to them, but was already familiar with the story. The US does not have an exclusive on treating indigenous peoples poorly, its just that there is just far less press coverage.
Most of the New England states have or had laws on the books that prevent HQ power being treated as being renewable. When VT was pushing to have the nuclear power plant closed while continuing to reduce their carbon impact the easy way was to declare HQ renewable, they did so without a lot of debate and the final vote was at the tail end of session prior to Christmas recess. It also helped that two of the largest power utilities in the state were conveniently bought by Canadian firms that have ties to HQ. Mass has or will soon declare HQ power renewable after a lot of lobbying by Eversource and HQ. Unfortunately HQ is just international NIMBY.
I havent had time to listen to them, but was already familiar with the story. The US does not have an exclusive on treating indigenous peoples poorly, its just that there is just far less press coverage.
Most of the New England states have or had laws on the books that prevent HQ power being treated as being renewable. When VT was pushing to have the nuclear power plant closed while continuing to reduce their carbon impact the easy way was to declare HQ renewable, they did so without a lot of debate and the final vote was at the tail end of session prior to Christmas recess. It also helped that two of the largest power utilities in the state were conveniently bought by Canadian firms that have ties to HQ. Mass has or will soon declare HQ power renewable after a lot of lobbying by Eversource and HQ. Unfortunately HQ is just international NIMBY.
250 million spent to date by Eversource
http://www.unionleader.com/article/20171221/NEWS05/171229898
http://www.unionleader.com/article/20171221/NEWS05/171229898
CaptCaper
Active member
So true... if they only buried it first. ha.. and some one will pay for the extra expenses. Not us? one way or the other will be paying cost's that get passed down the food chain.
Much as I would like it to be, the reality is the project that size even buried along roadways would eat up 10% of the budget up front so based on 1.8 Billion that would be 180 million they woudl have spent anyhow . They may be in the hole for the land purchases and extra churn related to poor strategic planning but my guess would be possibly in the 50 to 80 million range for "extra costs".
What is most likely more the case is they would be 2/3rds through the construction and probably up be near end of construction. Its two years of profits that is the big loss. The Mass Clean power RFP probably wouldnt exist in its current form if NP was on line and NP would be a shoe in, given the delay with NP and the lack of SEC permit, NP could get locked out of the Mass RFP.
SPNHF's has a fairly interesting summary
http://mailchi.mp/forestsociety/spe...ate-whats-next-for-northern-pass?e=adc54da1fc
What is most likely more the case is they would be 2/3rds through the construction and probably up be near end of construction. Its two years of profits that is the big loss. The Mass Clean power RFP probably wouldnt exist in its current form if NP was on line and NP would be a shoe in, given the delay with NP and the lack of SEC permit, NP could get locked out of the Mass RFP.
SPNHF's has a fairly interesting summary
http://mailchi.mp/forestsociety/spe...ate-whats-next-for-northern-pass?e=adc54da1fc
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An interesting viewpoint
https://moderndiplomacy.eu/2017/12/...rate-collaboration-silences-public-debate-us/
FYI, due to mostly a lack of natural gas pipeline capacity New England power generation has been running on a very high percentage of oil during this cold snap.
https://moderndiplomacy.eu/2017/12/...rate-collaboration-silences-public-debate-us/
FYI, due to mostly a lack of natural gas pipeline capacity New England power generation has been running on a very high percentage of oil during this cold snap.
