Glen Boulder short-cut

[giggy]

Typical American response.... Not sure if you were trying to toss everyone under the boss, or just some of us. I stand by my response, that walking on summit grasses will kill them. If you want to...go ahead. What do you care, right? Many of us remember what the trails looked like before they were beat to ****. Sorry if we want to try to minimize our impact.

well thanks for the compliment - relax, it was just an opinion and the guy was asking for advice on a shortcut. nobody is saying its bad advice/ethics.

 

[Jasonst]

You ever see a healthy area of grass and summit plants, with a clear dead spot smack dab in the middle in the outline of a footprint? I have...there's no returning that spot to it former state.

I don't mean to sound crunchy here, but the walking across the tundra plants and the long term effects are pretty clearly laid out.

I would love to see a picture of that.

 

[dug]

Umm, me thinks you might be the one to relax. Other than to get your post count up, what did you add to this thread?

I believe my first point was a polite reply that stated you could do what he asked, but from what I saw (and I thought about it, too) it didn't look like it would be prudent.

Taken from the AMC Website, regarding Leave No Trace: "Travel and camp on durable surfaces, which include established trails...

The point of the replies was that while someone could do what he asked -and I have absolutely no problem with someone asking- was that doing as he thought could be damaging to the environment. What is wrong with those replies?

 

[Neil]

Typical American response....

I thought God was an American...

C'mon folks, lighten up. Yes it is a bad thing to walk upon and damage high elevation vegetation. Lichens on rocks? I wouldn't worry about it for a millisecond. The occasional person carefully whacking from Redfield to Skylight (I aint never bin to Boot Spur so I can't say nuttin' about it) it's OK but don't bring your whole family or longlasting "damage" will surely ensue.

Summit vegetation in the ADK's is different from vegetation found lower down. What about the Whites?

IMO the damage isn't so much an environmental catastrophe as yet another erasure of wilderness. That is what I don't like: birth of new trail = loss of wild.

 

[Kevin Rooney]

I thought God was an American...

Hmmm ... She is. And 42 is the Secret of Life. You saw the movie, right?

 

[Jeff-B]

Alpine vegitation, the "Forbidden Tundra"

This is exactly my main point I tried to make a few years ago when I got blasted for the "bushwhacking" ethic.
I fear once again to even mention this for I may be red flagged.

I regularly travel "cross country" in alpine regions, strictly staying on rocks and completely avoiding grasses, moss and other flowering plant species.

The AMC is now educating the "Forbidden Tundra" at Huts each night and for the "Junior Naturalist" program. They specifically talk of which types of vegitation are "Forbidden Tundra" to step on and how its OK to walk around on the surrounding rocks.
I find the AMC's effort quite approachable and welcoming, while not specifically stating to stay strictly on the trail.
In one particular example I learned of a moss where "95% of the worlds species lives between Mt. Monroe and Mt. Washinton", and that it too dies when stepped on even ONCE.


One most important point to make concerning alpine travel, is that the White Mountains are getting overuse by comparison to most other mountain regions across the country.
This is enough reason to practice responsible mountain stewardship, and it can start right here with forums like this.

I am all for cross-country alpine travel when done responsibly, but the last thing our region needs is some freaking gung-Ho yahoos thrashing the gullies and stating they read it here on VFTT as OK to do!

 

[--M.]

Learning as I go...

Here's how I've learned it (I know you're dying to hear how I've learned it):

Hiking rules are like golf rules. They're numerous, difficult to learn, sometimes difficult to understand. And any given one can be ignored and not destroy the game. But they're usually there to improve each other's experience.

Having done so once, I'll never step on another's lie on the green again. It screwed up his shot and made me feel childish.

The mountains and their plants will likely be here in a thousand years. These suggestions teach us how to enhance the experience, both for the plants' sake and the sakes of other hikers. It's not cataclysmic to step on a cinquefoil, but it is poor form, and given the educated choice, most would choose to help.

"All things are possible; not all things are profitable." --Someone.

Just another $0.02,

--M.

 

[forestgnome]

Typical American response....

You are saying Americans are ignorant. This isn't the place to insult Americans.

 

[dug]

You are saying Americans are ignorant. This isn't the place to insult Americans.

You are correct. Way out of line. Mea culpa.

 

[Orsonab]

Calm down, lads...

...I was hopin' it was just talus up there (it's OK to step on bare rock, right?) and none of those stinkin' rare plants. While I'm sure, in the great scheme of things, my standing on a patch of lichen will not cause the earth to spin off its axis, it would definitely be "bad form" and I would not willingly do it (not if anybody's watching, anyway).

Probably the short answer is: yes, you could do it...but wait till there's 12" of snow on the ground before you do.

I'm likin' the lichen!

 

[DougPaul]

...I was hopin' it was just talus up there (it's OK to step on bare rock, right?) and none of those stinkin' rare plants.

I have been up there--doing Isolation via Boot Spur and Ammo Ravine Tr. (I stayed on the trail--had no reason to consider bushwacking.) There are lots of plants near and below the junction. Don't know the species, so I have no idea how rare they were. IMHO, it would have been bad form to have walked upon them--the plants have to live there, I was just a visitor. (Didn't check for and don't remember if there is enough bare rock to allow one to avoid the plants.)

Besides, the view from Boot Spur was worth seeing twice...

Doug

 

[forestgnome]

You are correct. Way out of line. Mea culpa.

Cool.

So, I agree that there can be overzealousness by people who wish to protect the alpine zone flora, but as long as there are no laws forbidding off-trail travel in the White Mountains I'll just let it go.

I know that many alpine species can survive being crushed. The leaves, flowers, branches or stems will grow back. But so what?! Right now, it's crushed!!! This is like people who litter or deficate on the trail and say "no permanent damage, someone will eventually come by and clean up after me." Well, in the meantime, the place is trashed. If people litter each day, then the place always has litter. Likewise, if the flora is crushed on a regular basis, then it is always on the mend instead of being healthy and happy.

When I'm off-trail in the alpine zone, I go to whatever length neccessary to avoid stepping on any plant. It doesn't make you an eco-nazi to avoid stepping on alpine plants. In paying close attention to the plants and making a conscious effort to do them no harm, even temporary harm, I feel a sense of belonging.

It sounds like the AMC has changed their tune regarding off-trail travel in the alpine zone. Five years ago, I was severely harrassed by an AMC guide for being off-trail on the summit cone of Mt. Washington. Glad they've lightened up a bit.

Happy Trails

 

[chuck]

up top I stay off the grass, I have done some rock hopping over the grass though ... after a while got a little sloppy and new it was wrong so went real slow back and stopped doing it. I Think overzealous is probably a good idea here. Its funny you walk miles through the woods to get there and then you feel like your in some fancy park where you can't walk on the grass.... but we can't have everything both ways.

If you say/write "Typical (blank - anything) its usually considered an insult , if you say Typical American it is definitely a compliment.

 

[dug]

I would say I think we answered the question, and then some.

Orson asked if he could take the shortcut while not causing too much damage. The answer was no. I proceeded to slam the country I love. Holy crap. What a tangent...............

 

[chuck]

I agree no don't do the short cut.

 

[Neil]

He could take the shortcut in winter.
But, if it became a packed trail then in the spring people might keep following it as the snow rots out. They will break through. They might damage the vegetation underneath. Sigh.

 

[arm]

stay off the grass ... it gives you the munchies

 

[giggy]

just so folks don't get the wrong idea, nobody is saying destroy the place - I was injecting some humor into a sometimes far too serious situation - most folks on VFTT know not to destroy the environment, trails, smash flowers, trample grass and while I may have got off topic a bit, I do think its possible to explore the alpine zone off trail and safely, I think many will agree while folks and orgs like the AMC are out to educate and do good, not everyone shares the same values with off trail hiking. Some scoff at off trail stuff all together, some do it all the time. I don't think there is a right or wrong - as long a certain common sense is applied.

Trails here look fine to me and have for the last 10 years - what did they look like in the 1960's - I don't know. Humans have an impact everywhere and the mtns are no different.

I don't even really go off trail when there is no snow to be honest.

Foestnome and Jeff-B pointed out the points rather well. without insulting people -


I say give it a go, do your own hike and if your going to damage anything - then use commone sesne and turn around - there usually ways around anything up there.

 

[chuck]

"No Pack Goats Allowed"

 

[timmus]

mother of mercy........................

Right on Giggy. Here's my thinking about all this :

Cartoon by Jul