glissading the Ammy

[Scouter Bill]

I’m planning to descend the Ammonoosuc Ravine Trail on Sunday and I’m not sure if I want to carry an axe in addition to poles to the summit. Can the steep sections of the Trail be glissaded from tree-line to Gem Pool?

 

[Kevin Rooney]

Yes, mostly, although not quite from treeline. There are spots below the upper brook crossing which lend themselves to glissading.

 

[Jim lombard]

That section from the "View" sign down to Gem Pool is excellent for glissading, very fast and fun! I've done that one a few times.

 

[Craig]

I’m sure many people can tell stories of Glissading accidents, including myself.
I haven’t been in the Presidentials for a couple of weeks but on my last trip there wasn’t much snow on the ground.
Glissading below treeline is not without risk.

Be Safe.

 

[--M.]

The True Meaning of Glissading

I need clarified for me by people who have actually witnessed and/or performed this:

Are you talking about sliding down-hill in just your boots? Who would dare to be bare-booted above that particular treeline in mid-winter?

You don't mean butt-sliding, do you?

Now, here's the part I don't get: you don't mean with crampons on your feet, do you? Isn't it generally accepted that that's an effective way to break parts off of yourself?

Not sarcastic, curious.

I have boot-slid (with Stabilicers, as I recall) down the Hi-Cannon Trail last year, and it was a blast. A buddy and I pretty much ran down Goodnow & parts of Santanoni in NY on snowshoes, but that's not what you mean, is it?

Would you please clarify what would be on yer feet if you were "glissading the Ammy"?

Thanks.

 

[DougPaul]

I need clarified for me by people who have actually witnessed and/or performed this:

The word literally means "to slide". There are multiple forms used in mountaineering.
* standing (ie skiing on the bare soles of your shoes)
* crouching (crouch position, leaning back onto ice axe spike)
* sitting (called "butt sliding" by people who don't know proper terminology; feet downhill, ice axe spike dragging behind. Easy to roll over into self-arrest position.
* it is also possible to glissade in self-arrest position--use the ice-axe pick to control speed.

The ice axe should be kept ready to self arrest.

One can sometimes glissade on snowshoes in deep powder.

And one can often perform a standing glissade on scree. You start a small avalanche and ride it down. If it gets too big, you step out to the side.

Doug

 

[Chip]

* sitting (called "butt sliding" by people who don't know proper terminology; feet downhill, ice axe spike dragging behind. Easy to roll over into self-arrest position.
Doug

I'd say this was the OP's idea on the Ammo. Without crampons. A trail like Tecumseh's is great for boot skiing. Glissading the Ammo could be dangerous at points.

 

[TrishandAlex]

* sitting (called "butt sliding" by people who don't know proper terminology

Or by people who just like to say "Butt sliding."

 

[Tuco]

We glissaded/butt slid/scooted this once and it was fast and exciting. There was a lot of unconsolidated snow and standing was tough. The snow did help from the speed getting too far out of control.

Have fun, be careful. And have a great hike.

 

[DougPaul]

I'd say this was the OP's idea on the Ammo. Without crampons. A trail like Tecumseh's is great for boot skiing. Glissading the Ammo could be dangerous at points.

Below timberline sitting glissades are a good way to impale oneself on a stick or damage something on a rock. Above timberline sitting glissades risk the rock injury. An ice axe is the tool of choice for controlling speed.

Standing and crouching are safer.

Doug

 

[Fisher Cat]

Below timberline sitting glissades are a good way to impale oneself on a stick or damage something on a rock.

Standing and crouching are safer.

Doug

Yikes! That's a vivid mental picture. I'm sure we know what the "something" would be.
I'm curious on this too, would crouching (like squatting)be the best because it affords the opportunity if you're going to fall, to go backwards, reducing knee stress if you don't fight it?

 

[DougPaul]

Yikes! That's a vivid mental picture. I'm sure we know what the "something" would be.
I'm curious on this too, would crouching (like squatting)be the best because it affords the opportunity if you're going to fall, to go backwards, reducing knee stress if you don't fight it?

Standing is safest, presumably because one has a chance to take a quick step if one foot catches on something. (Of course, there is still the possibility of a nose plant if one cannot step off fast enough...)

I suppose you could wrench a knee if your foot catches when crouching, but at least your body is above whatever is hiding in the snow.


I have helped a friend after he fell on a stick while XC skiing. The stick tore through his clothing and entered his anus. Fortunately he only received a bad scratch. This was XC skiing, but it doesn't take much imagination to transfer the risk to a sitting glissade.

Another friend told me that he received a bad deep cut in the thigh while glissading. I don't remember the type of glissade--probably sitting or in self-arrest position.

Doug

 

[Fisher Cat]

That definitely makes sense. I do a lot of trail running and (I know this differs much from glissading) was shown how when descending its much better to come down at high speeds with a bit of a squat/crouch stance because 1.) Its easier on the joints and 2.) if you are going to fall, do it backwards if you can, and at least the distance isn't as far.
Thanks for the info.

 

[--M.]

To me, it has always meant skiing without skis, on one's feet. I just didn't see how it would be likely that one would be in the vicinity of the Lakes up there without traction, usually full crampons.

So, lacking context that clears things up, when the term "glissade" is used, does the word itself imply sliding, on one's feet, with or without crampons?

Thank you for this etymological tangent.

 

[DougPaul]

To me, it has always meant skiing without skis, on one's feet. I just didn't see how it would be likely that one would be in the vicinity of the Lakes up there without traction, usually full crampons.

So, lacking context that clears things up, when the term "glissade" is used, does the word itself imply sliding, on one's feet, with or without crampons?

Thank you for this etymological tangent.

"Skiing" on one's (bare) boot soles is a standing glissade.

Check, for instance, Freedom of the Hills: The term glissade generally refers to standing, crouching, or sitting glissades. It can also refer to snowshoe or scree glissades in the appropriate context.


BTW, it is usually very hard to (standing or crouching) glissade with crampons on. Probably dangerous too--too easy to catch a point if you can get it to slide in the first place.

Doug

 

[Jim lombard]

I've glissaded parts of the Ammonusuc 3 times and to me it means sitting down and sliding. You most definitely don't do it with crampons although I've done it with snowshoes in heavy snow. I use poles to control speed and would never do the upper parts but the section from the little sign with "View" down to Gem Pool was probably the best section.

 

[Mike P.]

You can stand glissade some parts, with a small saucer or seat type sled you could sitting glissade some parts without ripping your pants or self also.

I've been down it a couple of times, I do prefer walking down. The times I did it, it was doable in just bare boots or crampons. (Crampons, no glissading, as others said, glissading with crampons = bad fractures)

 

[Scouter Bill]

A young (15) friend was seriously injured (fully recovered since) after losing control of a sitting glissade on Lion Head Winter despite having prior experience and an ice axe; see 03-03-2008 at http://tuckerman.org/accident/20072008.htm. I didn’t take my axe, but was able to do standing and sitting glissades using snowshoes in Sunday’s deep fresh powder. I also practiced a fast stride technique using what looks like the Telemark stance.(Report at http://vftt.org/forums/showthread.php?t=27508.)

Thanks to all for the lively discussion.