Good knee gone bad :(

[coldfeet]

Going to the dr. next monday, i can't wait, pretty sure it's the miniscus (sp)..had my right one lock on me a few years ago and operated twice now the same is happening to my left, not a happy camper these days...It started to hurt before the winter gathering and finally really hurt a few weeks ago the day of the cat 35 dinner. go figure, my first year hiking, i finally find something i enjoy doing at the age of 44 and now i'm stuck. I know some of you and family members had knee problems and still go hiking, i'm trying to stay in a positive mood and wait it out.

 

[HikerBob]

Good luck and hopefully you'll be hitting the trails again soon.

Have to be fit for the Cabot Contingent Fall Reunion Hike

Bob

 

[jbrown]

My brother did the upper range with a damaged ACL a couple of years ago, and now is having his ACL reconstruction surgery tomorrow. Take it slow, allow yourself to recover fully before trying anything major, and be faithful to your physical therapy. Good luck!

 

[WhiteMTHike]

I have a bum left knee so I can feel your pain (no pun intended). I agree with the poster who said to stay true to your physical therapy, that is crucial. I'd also recommend getting fitted for and wearing a knee brace when you hit the trials again. The one I use fits snuggly but allows enough flexibility so I can hike with it on. Best wishes and hang tough.

 

[Mike P.]

I see your Avatar does not show hiking poles. They do help transfer some of the weight to your upper body & off your knees.

Good luck at the MD

 

[SherpaKroto]

David,
I'm the poster boy for knee/leg/ankle injuries/problems for 2004: 2 fractures, 2 torn ligaments, torn ankle tendon, degenerative osteoarthritis. I finally had a cortisone shot in my knee, and wear a full Generation II Extreme OA knee brace for all my hikes/ski. Don't give up, rehab, listen to your doctor, and you will find yourself back out there soon. Look closely in this PIC : you can see the brace. Doesn't seem to have slowed me (like it's possible to go slower )

 

[Umsaskis]

Sore knees usually can handle flat trails better than hilly trails. There are some flatter trails in the western Catskills that you might want to check out once your knee is on its way back, rather than trying to jump into mountains again immediately. There are also plenty of really beautiful flat trails of all lengths in the Adirondacks. Also, canoeing doesn't do anything to the knees. Lots of ponds in the Dacks and Catskills awaiting your paddle. Just a few other things to get you in among the mountains if your knee won't let you actually climb them. Hey, there's nothing wrong with watching loons instead of ravens some days!

 

[ROCKYSUMMIT]

Hey Dave, Hated To Hear About Your Knee. Sounds Like You're Getting Alot Of Great Advice. I Would Take Care Of It As Soon As Possible And Get To The Rehab Work. I Would Also Visit The Flatter Trails In The Adks. There's Tons Of Water And Falls To Check Out. Good Luck, See You Soon Enough On The Trails. Tony

 

[DougPaul]

Also, canoeing doesn't do anything to the knees.

Not necessarily so--the bent knee position typically used in a canoe is painful to some. I know of one boater who did all of his boating standing due to a knee injury.

I've fought my way back from knee problems. There are a number of things you can do to reduce the knee strain:
* hike up, ride down
* hike only when snow conditions allow you to plunge step (or at least absorb some of the energy of the descent in the snow)
* XC ski--avoid steep descents
* use trekking poles
* back down easy (footing) sections (uses the hips rather than the knees)
* keep the quads strong (exercises, and walk up and down small hills during the week. Train the downhills--uphill training affects the muscles differently.)
* do smaller hikes, light packs
* build up slowly--do a few smaller hikes to train for a bigger hike
* when the knees start to hurt--keep your technique. Limping etc increases stress elsewhere and can cause a new injury.

As one gets older, one has to pay more attention to staying in shape, overuse injuries are more frequent, and healing is slower. (I'm mid-50s...)

Obviously, see what the Doc has to say...

Good luck with it.

Doug

 

[Puck]

Hey Coldfeet
I am hiking on a torn ACL. Knees are my achilles heel...(I know that is a contradiction but bare with me)
I need to work out with weights and do things in general that I learned from my orthopedic surgeon.

I do everything...poles...brace...stretches....iboprofen and hobble after a long day.

I am sorry to say welcome to the club.

 

[Rick]

David,
Tore my ACL and lost 35% of my meniscus in late 1993. Had reconstructive knee surgery in Feb-94. Was out backpacking by May-94 (course I was only 34 then and more apt to recover quicker) and started climbing high peaks again by May-95.

For the 2 years following my surgery, I wore a robocop leg brace for any outdoor activity, but gradually stopped using it as my patellar tendon, quadriceps and hamstrings strengthened.

While I could do a lot of mild backpacking and dayhiking a few months after my surgery, I was always prone to knee swelling and had to work hard at limiting what I did.

Please don't fall into the trap that you need to get out there and be a tough guy and mask pain with ibuprofen. It just doesn't work. You need those knees to last so that you can backpack when you are 60-70 years old, so a few months or so now of mild walking are well worth the investment in the future of your knees.

And make sure you get several opinions. My first opinion was that I wouldn't need surgery and just needed to strengthen my leg muscles. After my knee gave out a second time, I was lucky to run into the Buffalo Sabres Orthopedic Surgeon and he set me straight.
Good Luck
Rick

 

[Puck]

Please don't fall into the trap that you need to get out there and be a tough guy and mask pain with ibuprofen. It just doesn't work. You need those knees to last so that you can backpack when you are 60-70 years old, so a few months or so now of mild walking are well worth the investment in the future of your knees.

Good point of view. Everything in moderation. I have hiked with out ibuprofen and felt inflammation and pain. As I kept working my knee and quadracepts over time and just trying to do a lot of hiking I have been able to go without Ibuprofen and without a neoprene brace. I am not one to mask pain and symptoms totaly.

 

[el-bagr]

Coldfeet, sorry to hear of your injury. Listen to your doctor and don't necessarily expect the worst.

I hurt my knee moderately badly on March 3 of this year... initial physician's diagnosis was complete ACL tear, 8 month recovery following surgery. On re-evaluation, I had a grade I ACL (partial) and grade II (near complete) MCL tear, 6-8 week recovery. With diligent physical therapy (done at home) and the right balance of rest and strengthening, I was back skiing by April 3. For me, the worst aspect of the injury was mental -- dealing with the prospect of 8 months of relative inactivity (no more skiing, no more hiking, no more surfing -- it was so bad I was ready to buy a fishing license!), and even dealing with a month or so of supposedly light use.

To add to SherpaK's skiing-with-a-brace pics, check out my recent Isolation TR -- Donjoy Playmaker peeking out over gaiters in all but the camp pics. A happy concession to the restoration of the ski season.

You'll be back out there soon. Added plus: maybe the neoprene in the brace will help prevent cold feet.

P.S. I second the wise recommendation to always use poles. After a bit too much trail running in college (carrying logs and stones seemed like great training at the time), I started using dumpster-scavenged ski poles for all dryland hikes due to minor knee pain. No more pain, plus you can go faster and carry more stuff -- if that's a good thing.

 

[Mr. X]

Man I feel for you. I recently gained weight and have found my knees aching. I now use trekking poles which seem to help, but your case sounds like it is more serious. Make the doctors work for you and do everything they tell you for your post op. I think the mountains will wait for you to get better. Hang in there dude!

 

[Mad Townie]

David,

Bummer news. Make sure the Drs. understand that you NEED to be doing this. Sometimes their approach is, "Just do a different kind of exercise." Remember, if they can get players back on the football field or the hockey rink, they can get you back in the hills! I've seen lots of successful knee repairs in the workers' comp. context, too.

Hang in there.

 

[daxs]

This past November, at the age of 46, I had arthroscopic surgery for my right knee meniscus. It was a pretty nasty tear and I can't help but wonder if I damaged the meniscus more with my 46r quest during the summer (ie 20 mile day hikes). 2 months after the surgery, I was out and hiking in the ADK's over New Years and was hiking at the winter gathering. I did several other hikes this winter in the ADk's and the Catskills without any problem Now, I have no problem with my knee until I try to run distances. 6 miles seems to be my limit right now . So, hang in there, have surgery if necessary, do your rehab and you should do fine.

 

[Waumbek]

I can't add anything to the knee problem discussion, Coldfeet, but I can encourage you to stay positive on this, which is really hard to do in the stage you're at now, waiting to hear the diagnosis. I've been hiking for 35+ years and doing other sports before that, and I can't tell you the number of times in the last 45+ years when I thought I was looking at the end of athletics, but here I am still getting up some good-size mountains and having a helluva good time doing it. I'm at the stage now of learning to manage conditions rather than hoping to cure them. I think you'll get a cure but I'm here to say that you can also "manage" your body, and it will still serve you well. Good luck.

 

[Gris]

Man yer a youngster! I'm 48 yrs. old and have had five (two major) knee surgeries alone, injured a lot of other stuff too. Still going strong. It can be done. Knees are easy compared to backs and shoulders! Still beating college kids on the 10-S court with virtually NO cartilage in either knee. NO ACL in left knee, partial tear of MCL in right. I don't wear a knee brace anymore either, agree with Rick that's only for rehab and becomes a crutch and leads to atrophy after that (tho i will put it on if i'm tired and want to ski more). Bottom line - there are three or four things that will determine your ability to continue:

1 - Attitude (STAY POSITIVE Remember, almost all of the recent great alpine ski champions - Phil Mahre, Stefan Eberharter, Herman Maier and Bode Miller, et al. all had MAJOR knee/ankle/leg surgery before winning the world cup overall!!!)
2 - work ethic with rehab (GOTTA PAY YER DUES)
3 - quality medical care (ALWAYS get a FEW opinions before letting anyone cut on you or before giving up if not better w/o surgery)
4 - your own physiology (the human body, particularly the male body, has an amazing ability to repair/adjust itself, but everyone's knees are different)
5 - your own pain tolerance (you can/will learn to ignore the dull aching, throbbing, non-piercing pain that comes with mileage)
6 - Learning to accept some limits (I certainly agree the worst thing you can do is push it and rush back. Not only can you re-injure the old injury but favoring one side can lead to host of other problems. Also, gotta watch those downhills. Use poles and wrap your knees before any major downhills.)

You'll be fine, just have patience, do yer own research - and don't be afraid to question yer doc and get a second/third opinion.

 

[coldfeet]

Thx

Thx for the therapy session, one day I'll pay everybody back somehow...I wanted to hear the positive ideas from people that have been through problems and after reading the responses i'm going to try not complaining anymore.

Gris and many hit it on the head, this time i have to get a few opinions, i've always trusted the first dr. but that's because i'm impatient, just knock me out and fix it was my motto.

It's weird to explain but because i just got involved into hiking really by accident I really liked it, finally achieved something physically that only few did (listen to me, boy do i sound like a bigshot, NOT) it is nice to be a part of a team. But as soon as i made the team i have to sit on the sidelines and wait my turn to get back in the game. I think the glisading last month on Westkill was probably a bad idea. Funny thing about poles, that was the first gear i bought last year when i became involved in this activity, my wife went nuts when she heard about the price ($120) i returned them and exchanged them for a cheaper pair plus gaitors! Have a nice weekend and enjoy the spring...David

 

[Gris]

Hey Coldfeet - keep your chin up. [Actually it was Rick who first suggested getting multiple opinions.] Just to drive that point home consider this. Three or four summers ago whilst hiking/climbing/fishing in a remote mountainous area of WV, rather than hike back a mile back down a stream-bed in order to ford then hike back up to the pool i had found, i leaped about five feet across (and 8+ down) from high boulder to low boulder. When i landed CRUNCH my right (good) knee cartilage smashed and i felt a couple fo strands of MCL go too. I did get the trout lurking in the pool and we all ate him for dinner, but it was the most expensive fish of my life. (BTW - i hiked the rest if the week on it in excruitating pain rather than cancel/curtail an extended family vacation for ten folks.) Anyway, when i got back home to Fla the first surgeon i saw said i needed a complete ACL reconstruction (=year+ rehab). I had already lost, but done nothing about, my left ACL and i knew this didnt feel unstable like that, so i took my MRI to another physician who said "no way, there's your ACL intact right there!" Thus, an easy arthroscopic debridement followed by a month of rehab cured it! Moral of the story? Medicine has become for many practitioners more of a business than a profession. Thus, you HAVE to educate yourself and second guess these guys, lest you fall prey to an unscrupulous, incompetent or just plain uncaring doc.