GPS: Do I want one with mapping?

[Dana]

If you have good map and compass skills, you don't need a GPS at all.

But it is nice to have, and a mapping GPS is even nicer. I have a 60Csx and am very happy with it. It's just so convenient. It doesn't replace a map (except on a local hike where I know the area but the GPS is, again, convenient), but it means that the map might stay inside my pack.

I used to use a Garmin Geko 301, but my aging eyes sure are happy with the larger [color] screen of the 60Csx.

Somebody mentioned the 76... the 76 and the 60 are identical electronically; the only difference is the case shape and size... the 76 is made for boating (also popular with hang gliders) and it sits flat on a surface, and unlike the 60 series it floats (I'm told the 60 series will float if used with lithium batteries but I never tried it). I find the 60 series much more comfortable to hold in my hand than the 76. I also use it for flying my ultralight, and the mapping features (with an airport database as custom POIs) are very useful there.

 

[TomD]

Having a compass out and ready can't hurt either- many GPS units (like many of the etrexes) don't actually have a built in compass. The navigation function only works accurately as long as you keep moving, since it uses successive GPS coordinates to figure out what direction you're traveling in and then point you in the correct direction. As soon as you stop moving, the compass on the screen reverts to indicating that north is straight ahead, regardless of what direction you are facing. It can be a little bit confusing until you get used to it.

My GPSMap 76CSx has a compass and doesn't do the reset you mention. You can set up the pointer two different ways-course and bearing.

I bring a compass and map anyway for two reasons-1, I am just not that good at using the GPS and 2, if the batteries go dead, I still have the compass and map.

 

[DougPaul]

My GPSMap 76CSx has a compass and doesn't do the reset you mention. You can set up the pointer two different ways-course and bearing.

I'm not sure what reset you are referring to--I'll guess that you mean the switch between the magnetic and GPS compasses. To set the speed and time thresholds between the two modes: main_menu > setup > heading > (settings at the bottom) If you set it to zero speed, the GPS will always display the GPS compass and if you set it to a very high speed the GPS will always display the magnetic compass.

Course vs. bearing is a different issue. The course is a line between the start and destination points--it has a direction and a position. (The course line is fixed--it does not change as your position changes.) The display (similar to an aircraft course deviation indicator (CDI)) shows any drift off the course line but the course angle will not change. Bearing is the direction from the current location toward the destination point--the display is a compass rose with a bearing pointer. If you drift to the side of a direct line to the destination, the bearing will change so that it continues to point toward the destination. My guess is that most hikers will prefer to display the bearing.

Doug

 

[yardsale]

I have been using the 30 for about 3 months now. Operation is less intuitive than my old Etrex legend and took some time to figure out. The compass sometimes goes wacky and must be re-calibrated in the field. You will notice this when tracking to a way point as the direction arrow becomes erratic. The complaint I have with all Garmin products is the absence of detail in their maps. If you compare a Garmin map with a USGS map you discover all the sh*t the Garmin map hides. A re the Delorme products better, or are their more accurate Garmin compatible maps?

 

[DougPaul]

The complaint I have with all Garmin products is the absence of detail in their maps. If you compare a Garmin map with a USGS map you discover all the sh*t the Garmin map hides.

I just did a spot comparison between the Garmin 24K topo and the corresponding USGS 24K topo and the Garmin 100K topo and the corresponding USGS 100K topo. All four map segments were displayed on my computer screen. Each corresponding pair showed similar amounts of detail--and they should because the Garmin maps are based upon the corresponding USGS data. (The conversion is generally pretty good, but not perfect.) The data is there in the Garmin maps...

Note: make sure that you are comparing maps with the same underlying scales. Eg USGS 100K to Garmin 100K and USGS 24K to Garmin 24K.

The biggest difference is the mode of display: the USGS maps are hand crafted to be displayed on sheets of paper at fixed scales (and, of course, the 100K maps have less detail than the 24K maps). In contrast, the Garmin maps are designed to be displayed at a very wide range of scales, often on a very small screen with limited resolution. If you take a large scale map (eg 1:24K) and display it at a smaller scale (eg 1:250K), the features will be so crowded that the map will be unreadable. Labels, unlike the terrain data, are printed in a fixed size so they remain readable at all scales. This all creates a tension between the amount of detail and the amount of context. Garmin uses an algorithm to reduce the amount of detail shown as a function of the display scale to maintain readability, but it is not perfect. (This is a hard problem to solve well--I suspect that there is no perfect solution.) One effect is that as you zoom in and out a feature or label may appear and disappear. There is a "Detail" setting (under "Setup Map") that you can use to adjust the amount of detail. FWIW, I mine is set to "more" (level 4 out of 5 levels).

So yes, the Garmin maps can be a bit harder to use--you may have to zoom in and out to see what you want and the small GPS screen only allows you to see detail or context but not both simultaneously.

The above is one reason that I like to use my GPS in conjunction with a paper map. The paper map provides an overall view of the area and the GPS (set to a fairly large display scale) shows the immediate location with enough context to locate myself on the paper map by inspection. I will also zoom the GPS display in and out as needed.

Doug

 

[DougPaul]

The compass sometimes goes wacky and must be re-calibrated in the field. You will notice this when tracking to a way point as the direction arrow becomes erratic.

The compass should be recalibrated every time you disturb the batteries. Since the current drawn by the GPS increases as the batteries wear down, it might even be prudent to recalibrate periodically. (The currents cause magnetic fields which might affect the compass--I don't know if this is a big enough effect to cause noticeable errors.)

As noted earlier, I rarely use the magnetic compass in my GPS--I prefer to transfer bearings to and from my mechanical compass and use it.

The magnetic compass in some GPSes also draws enough current to noticeably reduce the battery lifetimes.

Doug

 

[BobC]

Not sure if I'm alone in this, but I haven't had much luck with getting good satellite reception while using some of the cheaper Garmin models. I gave up on my eTrex Legend years ago because it just couldn't consistently get a good satellite signal once I was in the woods. Just this month, I got an eTrex Venture HC (given to me as a Christmas gift), and I had similar problems with reception while doing a simple short hike to Mt. Major this past weekend. The unit couldn't get a good signal even while I was walking down a fairly open trail and holding it in my hand. Honestly, I don't know how Garmin can keep selling these products - maybe I'm just unlucky and getting defective units?

Anyway, I decided to bite the bullet, and last night I returned the Venture HC and got a Garmin GPSMAP 62S. It's significantly more expensive, but a friend of mine told me that you can't go wrong if you get something in Garmin's 60 or 62 series. Hope to try it out soon and will report back on whether or not the reception is better.

 

[MichaelJ]

a friend of mine told me that you can't go wrong if you get something in Garmin's 60 or 62 series.

You can - you don't want a 60CS (or any 60 without an "x"). The 60CSx has a newer chipset and gets much better reception than the older 60 models. In fact, the 60CSx has worked great in places where a 60CS held by the person standing next to me couldn't even lock onto a satellite.

Presumably (Doug?) the 62's all use the newer technology.

 

[DougPaul]

Not sure if I'm alone in this, but I haven't had much luck with getting good satellite reception while using some of the cheaper Garmin models. I gave up on my eTrex Legend years ago because it just couldn't consistently get a good satellite signal once I was in the woods.

My first GPS was an eTrex Vista which had similar problems, but it did work well if it had a good skyview.

Just this month, I got an eTrex Venture HC (given to me as a Christmas gift), and I had similar problems with reception while doing a simple short hike to Mt. Major this past weekend. The unit couldn't get a good signal even while I was walking down a fairly open trail and holding it in my hand. Honestly, I don't know how Garmin can keep selling these products - maybe I'm just unlucky and getting defective units?

I would have expected better given that Garmin lists it as having a high-sensitivity receiver.

How were you holding it? The antenna is in the flat space above the display--if you were covering it, that would block the signals. (Flesh absorbs GPS signals.) The best way to carry it is face up, clear of your body, and in a steady spot (ie not in a swinging hand or on a swinging arm). Mounted on top of your hat is ideal, but not very practical. Holding it face up in your hand away from and above most of your body should work well. In the top pocket of your pack oriented as closely to face up as possible generally works pretty well too.

Anyway, I decided to bite the bullet, and last night I returned the Venture HC and got a Garmin GPSMAP 62S. It's significantly more expensive, but a friend of mine told me that you can't go wrong if you get something in Garmin's 60 or 62 series. Hope to try it out soon and will report back on whether or not the reception is better.

The 60CSx and equivalents have certainly worked well for many of us (myself included). I believe the 62s should work similarly.

Doug

 

[DougPaul]

a friend of mine told me that you can't go wrong if you get something in Garmin's 60 or 62 series.

You can - you don't want a 60CS (or any 60 without an "x"). The 60CSx has a newer chipset and gets much better reception than the older 60 models. In fact, the 60CSx has worked great in places where a 60CS held by the person standing next to me couldn't even lock onto a satellite.

The 60CS is the predecessor to the 60CSx. (I have both.) Its reception is better than the original eTrex line but not better than the 60CSx.

Presumably (Doug?) the 62's all use the newer technology.

The 60CSx uses the SiRF StarIII GPS chipset* and the 60s uses the STM Cartesio GPS chipset**. (The 62s is pretty much an Oregon with a push button interface.) I believe the Cartesio chipset is newer than the StarIII, but I don't know if it is any better. A common opinion seems to be that it is cheaper... (Garmin doesn't tell us why they have chosen a particular chipset.)

I can see some differences in the descriptions, I'm not sure exactly what they would mean to the end user.

* There are several versions of the StarIII, here is a ref to one: http://www.csr.com/products/26/sirfstariii-gsd3tw
** Cartesio (one of a number of pages): http://www.st.com/internet/com/TECHNICAL_RESOURCES/TECHNICAL_LITERATURE/DATA_BRIEF/CD00242715.pdf

Doug

 

[BobC]

How were you holding it? The antenna is in the flat space above the display--if you were covering it, that would block the signals. (Flesh absorbs GPS signals.) The best way to carry it is face up, clear of your body, and in a steady spot (ie not in a swinging hand or on a swinging arm). Mounted on top of your hat is ideal, but not very practical. Holding it face up in your hand away from and above most of your body should work well. In the top pocket of your pack oriented as closely to face up as possible generally works pretty well too.Doug

I was holding it flat in my hand with the display face up, watching as the trip meter kept adding to the 'Stopped' time while I walked. This was on the lower part of the Brook trail on Mt. Major, not exactly a spot with heavy tree cover.

I'd really like to be able to just carry a GPS in a case either on my hip or maybe clipped to the shoulder strap of my pack. I'm hoping the 62S will allow me to do that.

Sorry if this has been a bit of thread drift, but I thought that in addition to discussing the OP's original question, it would be important to note that you want one that can get a good signal. It's not much use if it does mapping but can't get good enough reception to actually be used out on the trail.

 

[DougPaul]

I was holding it flat in my hand with the display face up, watching as the trip meter kept adding to the 'Stopped' time while I walked. This was on the lower part of the Brook trail on Mt. Major, not exactly a spot with heavy tree cover.

Sounds ok as long as your thumb wasn't covering the antenna.

I'd look at the satellite display rather than the trip meter to assess the state-of-lock. (Unfilled bars mean that the GPS is receiving the satellite, filled bars mean that the orbital info has been downloaded and the GPS can use the satellite to compute the position.) You need at least four satellites with filled bars.

There is a speed (or maybe speed and time) threshold--if you are going slower than the threshold, the GPS considers you to be stopped. Even if you are stopped, the GPS position will wander around a bit--thus there is no hard and fast way that the GPS can differentiate between slow movement and being stopped. So for slowish walking/hiking, the stopped vs moving decision may be wrong. (IIRC, this speed threshold was settable on some of the earlier models, but I can't find it on the 60CSx.)

I'd really like to be able to just carry a GPS in a case either on my hip or maybe clipped to the shoulder strap of my pack. I'm hoping the 62S will allow me to do that.

The hip isn't very good since your body blocks much of the sky. However, a small pouch attached to a pack shoulder strap works well. And if you are only looking at the GPS occasionally or just recording a track, in the top pocket of the pack is usually even better. (GPS signals go right through dry fabric.)

BTW, the 60 series comes with a plastic clip that screws on the back--I advise that you not use it as it provides enough leverage that several people have broken the cases. If the 62 series comes with something similar, I also suggest that you not use it. I suggest that you get the foam-neoprene case: https://buy.garmin.com/shop/shop.do?pID=68890 It will protect the screen (add a PDA protector if you wish) and reduce the chance of damage if you drop the GPS. You can use the GPS while it is still in the case.

Sorry if this has been a bit of thread drift, but I thought that in addition to discussing the OP's original question, it would be important to note that you want one that can get a good signal. It's not much use if it does mapping but can't get good enough reception to actually be used out on the trail.

No problem by me... Learning how to use the GPS is every bit as important as (or maybe even more important than) the hardware.

GPSes are complicated sophisticated little devices that can act in strange ways if you don't know how to use them. Play with it, read the manual*, explore the menus*, and use it when you don't need it (eg when hiking on a trail) to learn how it behaves. Then if you really need it, you will know what to do.

* The manuals don't cover everything. The online versions from Garmin are often better and more up to date than the paper ones.

Doug

 

[BobC]

Thanks for the help Doug.

 

[DougPaul]

Thanks for the help Doug.

You are welcome--happy to help.

Doug

 

[Remix]

If you have good map and compass skills, you don't need a GPS at all.

Well that doesn't explain why all the Bermuda Triangle TV specials have mysteriously disappeared.