Tuck
Member
Thinking about taking the plunge and getting a GPS. Looking for recommendations for a user friendly GPS. Thoughts greatly appreciated. Thanks
Tuck
Tuck
GPS Recommendation
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John in NH
Member
You beat to to the punch asking this question, was wondering the same and about to start a thread.
I would specifically be interested if someone could comment on one that's not to expensive and good for bushwhacking (what i mean is how the heck do you load topo's onto gps devices? Does it cost per download, free on the internet, or do they just come with topo's on them)? I still have a flip phone and bushwhack with a map and compass to give you my frame of reference.
Tuck, were you looking for one for just general use while hiking marked trails, bushwhacking, or both?
I would specifically be interested if someone could comment on one that's not to expensive and good for bushwhacking (what i mean is how the heck do you load topo's onto gps devices? Does it cost per download, free on the internet, or do they just come with topo's on them)? I still have a flip phone and bushwhack with a map and compass to give you my frame of reference.
Tuck, were you looking for one for just general use while hiking marked trails, bushwhacking, or both?
I use the GPS on my smart phone, and downloaded the topos through my account (which I renew annually). I use Trimble Outdoors' 'Backpackers GPS Trails Lite'. I think it's $30 bucks a year. The maps are just the USGS maps from a while back, so they aren't totally up to do (but it's kind of near to see all the trail relocations, of which there are TONS!). There is probably a better solutions, but I like using my smart phone as my GPS. I still carry a map to compare to the one on-screen in the case of trail discrepancy, but that wouldn't be an issue if you're off trail intentionally. 
Tuck
Member
Tuck, were you looking for one for just general use while hiking marked trails, bushwhacking, or both?
John, I am looking for both but primary use will be marked trails.
Tuck
John, I am looking for both but primary use will be marked trails.
Tuck
Stan
Well-known member
Is the GPS in a smart phone dependent at all upon a cell tower signal?
Maybe older models, but most newer ones have a built in satellite GPS (and some may use both, but I put it in airplane mode when I use it). Note: I had to fidget with the update distance (sensitivity) to make the distance and vertical stats useful - it was waaaay over reading. I have it set to 50' and now it's pretty accurate.
Edit: not sure why I bothered to answer this - I should have just waited for DP!
DougPaul
Well-known member
It depends...
* Some of the earlier phone GPSes required a cell tower connection
* More modern units may use the cell connection to achieve a faster startup (assisted GPS or AGPS), but will still operate without.
* The software may depend upon the cell connection to download maps. Some software has the capability of storing the downloaded maps for use without the connections. (If you are going to be in a place where a connection may be unreliable or nonexistent, make sure you download the maps before hand.)
Stand-alone GPSes often have better battery life than smart phones as well as field replaceable batteries.
Doug
DougPaul
Well-known member
My favorite is the Garmin 60CSx (no longer available) and also have a follow-on Garmin 62s. The current model is the Garmin 64s. Any of these 3 are, IMO, good choices. The Garmin eTrex 20 and 30 also look like good choices. (Other manufacturers may also make good units, but I haven't followed their product lines.)
IMO, you should get a unit with loadable internal maps and field replaceable batteries (eg AA).
You will also want software to display the maps on your computer and to interact with the GPS. (Garmin supplies MapSource and BaseCamp at no charge.) Maps can be bought from Garmin or free maps (of variable quality) are also available online.
The above question has been asked in many prior threads. The answers include lists of desirable features. Search and ye shall find.
Doug
Stan
Well-known member
I've been impressed with DeLorme PN60w and inReach, a combination of GPS and satellite communications for emergencies, texts and shared tracking. Anyone had any experience with these devices? They seem the perfect combination for remote adventures.
Delorme is great, and for something like $30/yr you can download all the maps you want. Only issues are that the scene isn't huge, and it's not Mac-friendly.
I use Gaia on my iPhone, and live it, but it does suck huge battery power.
I use Gaia on my iPhone, and live it, but it does suck huge battery power.
I have an Etrex 20 and use it for the mentioned purposes: on-trail mainly just to have a track to play with at home later (and the occasional "how much more elevation to the next landmark", which a regular altimeter would accomplish too), and some use off-trail as a map/compass assist as desired. It does the job, perhaps not as well as the higher-end models like the 62 series, but plenty good enough for my use, and it is pretty inexpensive for GPS units. Battery life with a pair of Eneloop AAs is 20-24 hours tracking time, even in winter (it lives in my pocket, so it stays warm enough even if it isn't the most accurate location for tracking). I believe the Etrex 30 adds a barometric altimeter and magnetic compass, which could be useful at times, but I've become comfortable just using the elevation contours on the screen to figure out my elevation (as unless you are on/near a ridgeline, the GPS elevation is often 100 feet or more off), and using a regular compass when needed.
You can get good downloadable topos off of GPSFileDepot for free, the Northeast Topo Part 1 covers pretty much all of New England. I loaded topos for the entire US from the same uploader onto a microSD card (which the GPS can take) and so when I am hiking elsewhere in the US all I have to do is turn on the appropriate map. I also grabbed the MyTrails file from the same site, as it has an awful lot of the trails in the Whites on it (and most are pretty accurate, obviously there have been some reroutes in recent years). Imho, the $100 card from Garmin isn't worth it with these files available for free.
My only gripe is that the Garmin Basecamp software (for the computer) cannot overlay multiple map layers. But the GPS can overlay as many as you want On the GPS, I always have the base layer, an appropriate topo map layer (usually the NE one of course), and the trails layer. Only one at a time on the computer for some inconceivable reason.
You can get good downloadable topos off of GPSFileDepot for free, the Northeast Topo Part 1 covers pretty much all of New England. I loaded topos for the entire US from the same uploader onto a microSD card (which the GPS can take) and so when I am hiking elsewhere in the US all I have to do is turn on the appropriate map. I also grabbed the MyTrails file from the same site, as it has an awful lot of the trails in the Whites on it (and most are pretty accurate, obviously there have been some reroutes in recent years). Imho, the $100 card from Garmin isn't worth it with these files available for free.
My only gripe is that the Garmin Basecamp software (for the computer) cannot overlay multiple map layers. But the GPS can overlay as many as you want
On the GPS, I always have the base layer, an appropriate topo map layer (usually the NE one of course), and the trails layer. Only one at a time on the computer for some inconceivable reason.
DougPaul
Well-known member
I don't use the built-in magnetic compass (I prefer my mechanical compass), but I do use the barometric altimeter--it is generally within ~10 ft of known spots such as summits. (Used with auto-calibration, after an hour or so.)
That is a 100K scale topo. Garmin sells both 100K and 24K US topos. IMO, the Garmin maps are better quality, but, of course, cost money. Take your choice. (I have all three: free and 24K and 100K Garmin maps.)
I suggest that if you buy maps from Garmin, you buy them on DVD rather than memory card. You get a lot more map area for your money and the maps can be displayed on your computer with either MapSource or BaseCamp. (You can download chosen map areas onto a memory card.) The 60CSx has a limit of 2024 map segments and the more recent units have a limit of ~4000 segments. BaseCamp and/or MapSource come with the DVD. (They can also be downloaded from the Garmin website, free of charge. Old versions can be found at http://www.gawisp.com/perry/agree.html.) See http://www.gpsfiledepot.com/tutorials/how-to-install-mapsource-if-it-didnt-come-with-your-gps/ for how to install MapSource from scratch.
Many prefer MapSource over BaseCamp. (You can have both installed simultaneously.) MapSource is no longer supported and cannot talk to the more recent Garmin GPSes, but you can download a track from the GPS with BaseCamp (or any other method), save it in a file, and then view it on MapSource if you prefer.My only gripe is that the Garmin Basecamp software (for the computer) cannot overlay multiple map layers. But the GPS can overlay as many as you want
The older Garmin GPSes (including the 60CSx) put multiple maps in a single file (named gmapsupp.img) with MapSource and the newer ones put each map in a separate .img file.
Forest Service GPS tracks for the WMNF trails are available and can be displayed on any map. See http://www.vftt.org/forums/showthread.php?38643-WMNF-GIS-trails-data-GPX for discussion and http://www.vftt.org/forums/showthread.php?52139-GPS-tracks-for-NH-4K for their new location.
Doug
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Having the barometric altimeter would be nice, but the GPS was a gift, so I manage without. I wouldn't use the electronic compass even if I had it, preferring a true mechanical as well, so that was not a loss in my eyes.
I was not aware they were 100K, I thought they were 24K, but neither is stated on the author's page. Regardless, there is more than sufficient detail for my purposes. I haven't found a noticeable difference between them and the 24K maps I generate off of CalTopo, but that could just be me. Obviously ymmv.
I'll check out MapSource, thanks. The inability of a modern computer software to overlay multiple maps, something that a minor hand-held battery-powered device CAN do, has baffled and frustrated me since I got it.
My Etrex 20 did the same thing, but I found that I could load one mapset at a time, and manually rename the .img file to whatever I wanted via Windows Explorer later, and then add another mapset. In the end, I got maps covering the entire continental US onto an 8GB card with room to spare, and I can turn on and off each one at will in the GPS menu. I never have to worry about remembering to load a map when I travel outside the NorthEast that way. In looking around just now, it sounds like an update to Basecamp a year or two ago removed the need to do this, as it does the re-naming automatically. That's nice to know for the future.
DougPaul
Well-known member
I treat the electronic compass as a backup and have never used it in the field. If you use it, don't forget to calibrate it beforehand. (The batteries have magnetic fields which have to be estimated and canceled.)
The Etrex 20 (without sensors) and 30 (with sensors) both appear to do the important functions quite well.
MapSource and BaseCamp can handle multiple maps, but can only display one at a time. (I have 14 maps loaded...) The GPS will generally display only one of the active maps at a time. (There is a (hidden) priority list which determines which map to display when multiple active maps cover the current location. However, I think there are also "transparent" maps (for objects like trails and roads) which would presumably display on top of a background (eg topo) map.
For reasons that don't matter here, I have been unable to run BaseCamp until very recently, so I generated all of my map (.img) files for my 62s by using MapSource to load them one at a time to a card in a 60CSx and then copy them over (using different names) to a separate card for the 62s. (Actually, you can save time by finding the map temp file used by MapSource and copying it from there... MapSource is pretty slow at loading the file into the GPS using the old serial interface--BaseCamp may be faster with newer GPSes because they use a different interface.)
I have run BaseCamp experimentally, but have never used it seriously so I can't answer many questions about it. (I run it under a widows emulator and for unknown reasons it won't talk to a GPS. It was a struggle to get it to run at all...)
Doug
Garmin is locking up the newer GPS so you have to buy an SD Card instead of downloading maps from a DVD. From what I read here, I cannot download my national parks maps (24K parks maps) , my g2 ocean charts, or the Garmin Topo DVD (100K), or Eastern fishing (useful for Lake George and other larger lakes) into the newer Garmins if they do not support mapsource.
Using a smartphone judiciously (airplane mode and 30 second LCD screen timeout), even if you have to bring a small 12000maH spare usb battery pack is getting more and more desireable. It is the LCD screen, backlight, and graphics which hog power on smart phones as long as the thing is in airplane mode. Then again I have never heard of people complaining about display quality with a smart phone.
I too have the Trimble app which runs on an android tablet-- but I only paid for the app..no subscription. From my hotel room, I was able to download high quality topo maps of the mountain ranges ( New York, Providence) of the Mojave Desert over WIFI without a subscription fee. I was able to create routes and waypoints, record my tracks, take photos, use the built in magnetic compass, etc for far less than a dedicated handheld solution.
Garmin has a new GPS called a Monterra--its an android tablet in handheld form (no phone function)-- but the reviews are terrible. Apparently it was released half-baked and still needs many firmware updates.
Using a smartphone judiciously (airplane mode and 30 second LCD screen timeout), even if you have to bring a small 12000maH spare usb battery pack is getting more and more desireable. It is the LCD screen, backlight, and graphics which hog power on smart phones as long as the thing is in airplane mode. Then again I have never heard of people complaining about display quality with a smart phone.
I too have the Trimble app which runs on an android tablet-- but I only paid for the app..no subscription. From my hotel room, I was able to download high quality topo maps of the mountain ranges ( New York, Providence) of the Mojave Desert over WIFI without a subscription fee. I was able to create routes and waypoints, record my tracks, take photos, use the built in magnetic compass, etc for far less than a dedicated handheld solution.
Garmin has a new GPS called a Monterra--its an android tablet in handheld form (no phone function)-- but the reviews are terrible. Apparently it was released half-baked and still needs many firmware updates.
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DougPaul
Well-known member
Actually, it is the other way around... MapSource does not talk to the newer GPSes (but as I noted in an earlier post can be used generate map files which can be transferred to a memory card for a newer GPS). Use BaseCamp.
Garmin switched to a new GPS interface between the 60CSx and the 62s models. BaseCamp uses the new interface, MapSource does not. (I've been told that BaseCamp can talk to the older GPSes, but I haven't tried it myself.)
Garmin's GPSes themselves are not locked, but some maps are.
* 24K USGS topos on DVD are unlocked. (24K scale, 1008--1814 segments)
* US Topo 2008 on DVD is unlocked. (100K scale, 6633 segments) It looks like Garmin is phasing this product out.
* Topo US 100K on DVD is locked to the GPS. (100K scale, ? segments)
* US topos that come with some models (eg 62st) appear to be locked to the GPS (100K scale, ~430 segments)
* Topo maps purchased on microSD card appear to be locked to the card
* Road and nautical maps are locked--if purchased on CDROM/DVD, they are locked to the GPS; if purchased on microSD card, they are locked to the card.
* The nautical maps are locked.
Garmin has been locking more of their maps of late and IMO will continue to do so.
(The above is my understanding of the current mapping products--no guarantees that it is correct and it may change. Check the requirements section for any map products of interest on the Garmin website before buying. https://buy.garmin.com/en-US/US/maps/on-the-trail-maps/c452-c456-p1.html)
FWIW, I have 24K (Topo US 24K Northeast, DVD) and 100K (US topo 2008, DVD) topo maps for the Lake George Region loaded in both my 60CSx (old interface) and 62s (new interface) GPSes. Neither map is locked.
Garmin has offered firmware updates for all of its GPSes after their release. Sometimes the updates fix bugs, sometimes they add features.
Doug
Like I said, instead of keeping track of all this locking, its getting easier to justify a waterproof otter case, a smartphone in airplane mode, (except when you are downloading free topo maps with the Trimble app over wifi), and a spare USB battery just in case.
DougPaul
Well-known member
Your choice.
FWIW, I have 100K topo maps for the entire US (Topo US 2008) and 24K topo maps for the continental US--all unlocked. I also have an old set of unlocked road maps (Metroguide v4.02*, 2002) so I can use my GPSes on the trail or on the road. It's pretty easy if you plan ahead...
* This is the last set of unlocked road maps that Garmin sold.
FWIW2, I have compared tracks from an iPhone (5?) with a 60CSx--the iPhone track had a number of large excursions from our trail, the 60CSx track so no such excursions. I don't know how typical this is of other smartphones, but the difference could be critical if one is in a location with degraded GPS signals. The 60CSx also has a battery lifetime of ~22hrs (Eneloop 2000mAh AA batteries at room temp).
Doug
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DougPaul,
I have two 60CSXs ( the second thanks to you ). The first is starting to wear out from so much use, antenna support, buttons. Would it be a good hedge to pick up a 62 before Garmin does more locking of maps? I have Garmin's East-West-AK-HI 100K and US Topo Nat'l Parks East 24K.
Now that Nat'l Geo is out of the computer mapping software business, is it still possible to find some of the state specific DVDs? I have the NE states but mission a few of the mountain and SW maps.
I have two 60CSXs ( the second thanks to you ). The first is starting to wear out from so much use, antenna support, buttons. Would it be a good hedge to pick up a 62 before Garmin does more locking of maps? I have Garmin's East-West-AK-HI 100K and US Topo Nat'l Parks East 24K.
Now that Nat'l Geo is out of the computer mapping software business, is it still possible to find some of the state specific DVDs? I have the NE states but mission a few of the mountain and SW maps.
Yes you have to plan way ahead with a handheld GPS, especially if you are travelling...
You also have to tether it to a big desktop computer. You should try a tablet or a smart phone, the trimble app (or similar). I think you would find it pleasing to be able to download topo maps, street maps, satellite photos, etc of any place in the country you may happen to be, without bringing a computer along.
In airplane mode, with the trimble app running, its easy to get over 36 hours of battery life (and tracks collection)...more or less depending on how much you use the lcd. The user interface is far superior on a phone. With auto brightness sensing, the battery life has gotten much better.
And think about it...on the same screen you can get weather, water flow, tides, trail conditions, read trip reports, get tips, do research, get driving directions etc.
The only issue is that the phones are not ruggedized. A good waterproof case solves that problem...for much less than the cost of a dedicated handheld gps.
As for signal strength, I have a HTC and I use it under the steel roof of my vehicle many times, just listening to voice navigation, traffic, police, and road hazard alerts.
I have no doubt it is much more sensitive than my dedicated car Garmin GPS, which I don't seem to need anymore.
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