Gps

[Johnnycakes]

CaptCaper,

I'm curious about the WAAS satellites. Are there still only two WAAS satellites in orbit? I ask because I was playing around with both the Garmin Legend and the Vista (both of which have WAAS capabilities) and could not get a lock on either of the WAAS satellites. I was in Saratoga Springs at the time. If I understand correctly, one of the WAAS satellites is over the Atlantic Ocean and the other over the Pacific Ocean. Could it be that because New Hampshire is closer to the Atlantic, that you are able to get a lock on the WAAS satellite, and I am not.

John

 

[Skiddah]

Johnnycakes, according to gpsinformation.net as of last month there are still two WAAS sattelites. The website can be found here WAAS Description .

I hope this helps. There is a wonderful description of how the system is supposed to work too.

Cheers!

-edit follows -
Sorry about that, the article is from Feb 2003. Garmin has a much newer page that also discusses WAAS: Garmin - What is WAAS .

 

[CaptCaper]

CaptCaper,

I'm curious about the WAAS satellites. Are there still only two WAAS satellites in orbit? I ask because I was playing around with both the Garmin Legend and the Vista (both of which have WAAS capabilities) and could not get a lock on either of the WAAS satellites. I was in Saratoga Springs at the time. If I understand correctly, one of the WAAS satellites is over the Atlantic Ocean and the other over the Pacific Ocean. Could it be that because New Hampshire is closer to the Atlantic, that you are able to get a lock on the WAAS satellite, and I am not.

John

The WAAS sat is over Brazil at about 45 Deg. in the SE for us in N.H.,Ma. You should have gotten it.

If you haven't used it for a while and moved to a location that is distant it will take a while to build the data to lock up. The WAAS being the longest needed. BUt it can use the data longer also in the case of losing the lock. Give the WAAS about an hour of clear veiw sky to build the almanc. If you've moved or haven't used it for a while.

Make sure you have a clear veiw of the sky when building a new almanac. One of my new ones locked up once because I didn't have a clear view. The WAAS wouldn't get used. It kept trying to use the one for the West. #33. Even when I had a clear view it wouldn't straighten out. I had to do a master reset then with a clear view it was fine.

Check out this site they have a lot of info about your unit.

http://gpsinformation.net/

I'm glad you guys are willing to learn about GPS. It may save your life someday or at least make for a relaxing day.
Their are so many hikers out there as fisherman I've known that would be alive today if they bothered to divert some money from fancy vechiles,etc. to safety gear that was available. Also be willing to spend some time to learn how to use it.

The said thing is as time goes by year after year there will be more of them "lost at sea"so to say. Where as a simple electonic device or piece of safety gear like survival suit could have made the difference.

Have you seen the great avalance becons now? Not only does it give a distress signal it gives the location though the gps system to the rescuers.

I'd rather error on the edge of tech than close my mind to it.

Garmins best model now weighs 7 onces. The 60CS with vertical trip computer. Has vibrant color's. I don't think weight here is an issue if your doing what were doing. We can just lose 1 pound of fat to offset it. Ha. At least it's the case for me.

Learn and use it the best you can and watch for those changing weather patterns up high they can come in sooner.

Best wishes for good hiking for all on this board.

Capt.

 

[whcobbs]

SherpaTom--

I used a basic Etrek hiking the length of the Northville-Placid trail in late summer-- valley route, all forested. With a little patience I could always get location, even along the Cold River. An advantage of such a simple unit is the good battery life. I never had to change batteries although I didn't use it in continuous mode. To know where you are you will need to prepare your maps ahead of time with UTM coordinates. The Etrek was a good starter unit for me.

Walt

 

[CaptCaper]

I started with an Garmin eTrex and wasn't impressed by either it's features or ability to maintain a signal lock. Fortunately it broke, and I bought a Garmin Vista along with the Topo US software, and now have a great combo. Have been able to maintain satellite contact in Northeast (NY as well as NE). The Topo software is a bit out of date - some of the trails aren't accurate or are missing, but if used with a good set of conventional maps and compass it's no problem. Some of the drawbacks to a good GPS setup are: 1) Cost - with the map software, it's a $375 investment 2) Battery life - I carry 2, 3 or 4 sets of spare batteries depending upon the temps and length of use 3) Cold temps - in very cold temps - 10F and below and in windy conditions - the LCD screen (as with any LCD) responds more slowly and is more difficult to read.

It's a great tool. It will not guarantee your survival.

Kevin

The only guarantee in life is death and taxes.

One on the reasons I use an externnal antenna on mine is because at low temps I can tuck it under my clothing to not only extend battery life but mainly to keep the unit to about 5 deg. or more which it needs to perform as it should.


I use an Titan III with much success but I have a Gilsson coming and can't wait to see what that does. It's supposed to be better than TitanIII.

I bring rechargeables to use and have been fine but for below Zero I bring Lithium of course as a good backup.

Check out this unit for survival toys.

http://landfallnavigation.com/spwff1.html

 

[Papa Bear]

I'm a little confused. I'm looking at the Garmin Summit and Vista as possible purchases. From what I see (in the REI catalog) the difference is the Summit doesn't have extra memory. But it does accomodate the same # of routes and waypoints. What goes in the extra memory if not those?

The external antenna: I always thought it was a wire that you plugged in. Now I'm thinking it's more like a signal repeater of amplifier?? It been described as a little box, not a wire. How does it work?

The REI catalog for the two Garmins also says "barometric altimeter and sensor". I thought I was getting a digital (i.e. satelite) altimeter. What gives?

Thanks
Pb

 

[Jim lombard]

Garmin 7X series

What about the new 7X? They use something called wide area augmentation system which is supposed to be accurate to 3 meters. They have a quad helix antenna. It's supposed to have better water resistance than the Etrex and they're less costly than the E-trex series, has anyone used one? http://www.garmin.com/products/gps72/
I'm looking at a purchase in the fall

 

[CaptCaper]

Papa Bear

They're two kinds of extenal antennas. If your gps has an extennal antenna jack than you can use the antenna with a small diameter cable to it. If you don't have an external jack than you'd have to get a reradiater antenna. It takes the signal from an antenna and will broadcast it to the gps. Also there is one that will send out the signal via wire loop that you put around the antenna on the gps. That one saves batteries.

Mine have had external jacks for years so I'm not an expert on reradiaters. You can check here


http://www.gpsinformation.net/

These antennas not only pick up sat's they amplify them.

 

[Mark]

Kevin, I thought the only difference between the Garmin eTrex and eTrex Vista was that the Vista has extra memory and map display. The GPS guts are the same and should give you the same basic GPS features. It's possible the newer Vista maintained a better signal lock due to newer firmware and/or hardware.

Papa Bear, the eTrex altimeters are barometric, but you can calibrate them using the satellite singals.

I will have to look for the reradiater antenna. An external antenna is the one thing I wish I had on my eTrex Summit.

 

[Jay H]

WAAS

Sounds like you're talking about WAAS: I wont attempt to explain it cause I don't understand all the details myself. I'll spit out some links though:

http://gpsinformation.net/waas/acquire-waas-a.html

http://gpsinformation.net/waasgps.htm

As you can see there are only 2 WAAS satellites and it takes quite a long time to get a fix on them after getting a non-waas position. So in effect, it's not that practical or entirely necessary to get such an accurate position for the majority of recreational uses. Of course, we all can think of situations this is not true but WAAS seems to still be fairly new and experimental. Who knows if this might chance in the long term future but I wouldn't be sweating if your GPS doesn't support it and I wont go jumping for joy if it does.

On a completely different subject:

Papa Bear
I don't think waypoints take up that much data, but the maps that are loaded do. That's where the difference in the 24MB memory in the vista is good for, you'll be able to load more mapdata into the unit.

Regarding the altitude, the Etrex Summit and Vista have a barometric altimeter that is supposed to be corrected via a GPS and of course, you have to calibrate it to in order for it to be accurate. A problem with GPS altitude is you really need a good fix on 3+ satellites for reliability.

http://gpsinformation.net/main/etrexsum.htm

Jay

 

[CaptCaper]

Papa Bear

You should look at Garmins new 60CS. They don't weight much and have an externnal antenna jack,data transfer port,excellent basemap,altimeter that is right on most of the time,holds alot of track.

It has an Vertical trip computer where as alot of the others don't.

Also the antenna points up so you can have it sticking out of a case and hang off the pack if you don't want to bother with an extennal antenna.

Plus the feature I like the best it is a vivid color display. The active track line can be changed to one of the many colors they offer. By doing this,which by the way you have to have the latest firmware obtained at Garmins update sight, the line is wider and easier to see in all types of weather. Bright back light if needed.

I have had one now for two weeks and have used in on a couple of hikes.

GPSCITY.COM is an authorized dealer and fair pricing. Most places on the web have them now in stock. They run $ 415.00

 

[SherpaKroto]

Kevin/PapaBear: The way I understand it, you can set both the Vista and Summit to calibrate using satellites. The way it was explained to me in an eMail from Garmin, the unit will compare barometric altitude against that calculated using the satellites and make minor adjustments when set to "Auto Cal". (Note: This does not necessarily agree with the way it is explained in the manual). I usually re-calibrate at the beginning of a hike, but rarely find it off much during a hike. I certainly have no need to buy an altimeter - this is just as accurate as anything I've seen.

I really like my Summit, but would definitely look at the newer offerings by Garmin (and others). The weak point in the eTrex series is the antenna, but I've not found it to be problematic. The 7 series uses a Quad Helix antenna, which is much better. Of course, the units cost twice as much though! They are all equally waterproof (IPX7 standard). Between the Summit and the Vists, the main differences are maps, waypoints, and WAAS, and of course, cost. One other thing: the Vista is not as battery efficient.

As I've said on other threads, I carry my GPSR in a carry case high on my shoulder strap. Definitely get a case: they are a lot cheaper than trying to replace a scratched/cracked screen! I've compared mine agains some that never used a case, and it's amazing how many scratches they pick up.

 

[Jay H]

SherpaKroto: Re: screen

What I've done with my vista was talk to an auto accessory installer that installs 3M's Invincashield. You can find a local dealer through Invincashield's website:

http://www.invincashield.com

Anyway, if you contact a custom installer, typically they'll have rolls and rolls of this stuff that after an installation, they're throw away. I've used that stuff to do everything from using as a chainstay protector on my bunch-o-bikes to screen protectors on my GPS, my compass, my digicam LCD screen. I would imagine most installers will simply give them to you for free since they typically just throw them out as far as I know. The guy I called near me does and he gave me enough to do what I wanted and more.

It's clear adhesive that you just measure, cut and take the backsheet off
Works pretty good and it is clear.

The alternative is you could get those little sheets that people with PDAs use. Or you could get away with clear packing tape if you not worried about removing it sometime in the future..

Jay

 

[CaptCaper]

I leave mine set on auto calibrate, with Variable Elevation

. It takes up to an hour or so to get to the best accuracy available with these. It has to build a data base.


I always leave it on for the whole hike so it's always gives good readings this way.

Heres a link to explain what the low down is between Vistas and 76S's sensor and how they work.

According the him you shouldn't calibrate the gps only if your going to stay at a known location and that leaving it in auto,variable elevation is the best for changing elevations.



http://www.gpsinformation.net/waas/g76s/g76s-map.html

 

[CaptCaper]

Kevin, I thought the only difference between the Garmin eTrex and eTrex Vista was that the Vista has extra memory and map display. The GPS guts are the same and should give you the same basic GPS features. It's possible the newer Vista maintained a better signal lock due to newer firmware and/or hardware.

Papa Bear, the eTrex altimeters are barometric, but you can calibrate them using the satellite singals.

I will have to look for the reradiater antenna. An external antenna is the one thing I wish I had on my eTrex Summit.

Heres the link to a thread for extennal antennas and the guy who has a Vista and has a special re-radiator antenna for it. He has a link to his source for it also.
These guys are GPS GeoCacher's .

=http://forums.groundspeak.com/GC/index.php?showtopic=68056&st=0&#entry859169

 

[imarchant]

I have an eTrex Summit. You can calibrate the altimeter to the satellite signals. I can't find the accuracy of this calibration, but I think it's advertised to be accurate to within 100 ft. Whenever I check the GPS altitude against a known benchmark, I have found it to be better than 100 ft.

The few times I checked my Etrex Legend it was within 30'. I had WAAS enabled.

 

[CaptCaper]

Heres the post Dale DePriest sent me. He's the founder of GPSINFORMATION.NET about the altimeter and barometer issue..

"Yes, there is a barometric altimeter in the unit. All the data elevation
boxes show the altimeter value except the one marked gps altitude. The
veritcal profile is the barometric altimeter and the barometric profile
is from the same source. This barometer can be calibrated manually or
set from the gps altitude. It should be corrected fairly often since it
also varies with weather and if left uncorrected it is not accurate.
Using auto-correction from the GPS works well and the altitude is then
more accurate (probably 3X) and better filtered than the GPS itself. The
verical profile and the weather barometer changes on the profile screen
is where this data is shown. It is stored in the tracklog."

Dale
--
_ _ Dale DePriest
/`) _ // http://users.cwnet.com/dalede
o/_/ (_(_X_(` For GPS and GPS/PDAs

 

[Skiddah]

I am also considering getting a GPS receiver. All these advanced features sound wonderful, and expensive. I am definitely looking at a lower end unit.

I want to find a GPS that will:

1. Display coordinates that I can use while looking at a paper map.
2. Connect to my laptop and is compatible with the National Geographic TOPO! software so that I can upload a GPS track after a hike.
3. Decent battery life would be nice.
4. An external antenna jack would also be nice.

No color maps, no WAAS, no two-way radio... I'm considering looking on e-bay for a used GPS, but am finding it hard to find a GPS model that offers what I am looking for without the extras. If anyone has been using a GPS for a few years on hiking trips, and they are happy with it's performance could you mention models to me?

Thanks,

 

[CaptCaper]

you can go to Garmin.com and look at their outdoor types. They have a compare list so you can compare them.
I personally wouldn't settle for less than th e 60CS and not for any single reason. It's just an all around better unit. Lightweight

In the end you won't be getting any funtions you wont' use at some time.

But I guess everyones got different priority's. I rather give up some stuff for a while to make up the difference for a full funtion gps that'll last a long time.

.The way I hike I will use all the extra funtions, vertial trip computer, much better accuracy, ability to load multible ACTIVE tracks, transfer data quickly, plus vibrant colors to help in bad weather. ie whiteouts,low and dark cloud cover and rain,fog,just to name a few.

They're all good quality in constuction. I used entry level Garmins that ran all day long all all summer long for a few years and probably is still going. They all perform just some perform better.

Hope this helps

 

[Frosty]

I am also considering getting a GPS receiver. All these advanced features sound wonderful, and expensive. I am definitely looking at a lower end unit.

No color maps, no WAAS, no two-way radio...

If anyone has been using a GPS for a few years on hiking trips, and they are happy with it's performance could you mention models to me? Thanks,

I've had the Etrex Summit for 2-3 years, since it first came out. I've been pleased with its performance. I use it with TOPO. It is easy to make a route in TOPO, and use the computer to name the waypoints things that make sense. (Instead of K01, K02, etc that show up when you make a route, I name them, LLHUT, FISHJ1, FISHJ2, KPOND, KRIDGTR, NKINS, SKINS. That way I wouldn't need my map to translate the waypoint into a loaction I'd know.)

The only time I "needed" it was the very first time I used it, but it is always nice to have should it be needed.

Sometimes I have trouble getting a signal. It can take as long as three-four minutes in deep valleys under tree canopy.

I don't know aobut tracks because I've never left it on for a whole trip. THe batteries last multiple trips for this reason.

That said, I'm thinking about getting a 60CS. I think I want to have a GPS with a map that will show me quicker that I'm moving in the wrong direction, should that info be important at the time. Not sure about it - they are expensive.

But I would have no trouble recommending the Etrex Summit.

Frosty