Grand Canyon & Mt Zion NP Hiking - Advice needed

[MtnManJohn]

I'll be heading out West the latter part of this week and plan on hiking the Grand Canyon (likely the Bright Angel trail, 15 mi loop), then heading to Mt Zion NP (hopefully the Zion Narrows if I can get a permit). This will be my first time west of the Mississipi.

Looking at the weather for this week, looks like the daytime will be in the 70s and at night it will be high 30s to low 40s (I don't intend on hiking at night). I'm wondering what the trail conditions are like, and if I can use just trailrunners? Also, what about hydration requirements? Is at least 2L water+gatorade (half-half mixture I use) enough?

Any other precautions or advice welcome. Thanks!

 

[Stan]

The Rim Trail in Grand Canyon is a good level hike with continuous vistas, historic attractions and access to a number of trailheads. Doesn't compare with Bright Angel in terms of challenge etc. but a good plan B.

A permit is required for the Narrows in Zion if you are doing the entire length; I'm not sure if necessary just for a few hours out and back which is what we, and many others, did with our available time. A two day trip is recommended for the best Narrows experience, photography etc., especially this time of year with such limited daylight. Part of the hike requires wading at depths which could be hazardous at some water levels and fatal during inescapable flash floods. Generally, this time of year, sudden flash floods are not as likely from thunderstorms out of sight upstream but with so much unsettled weather around I'd check with the rangers for conditions and forecasts of atmospheric stability, part of the registration process anyway.

I'd think you'd use more than 2 litres on a 15 mile Bright Angel hike. Not sure about the Narrows which isn't very strenuous but hard on your feet

Angels Landing is a classic Zion hike among the magnificant formations of the Colorado Plateau.

My favorite references and maps are usually the National Geographic series but the Fatali Gallery has an excellent brochure describing the best hikes in Zion. Unfortnately, the brochure doesn't appear to be on line but perhaps you can pick up a copy at the visitor center or their gallery just ouside the Zion entrance. http://fatali.com/ for a sneak preview of some of what you're in for.

 

[KRobi]

Not sure when they shut them off, but on BAT they had water every 1.5miles. Last water stop was Indian Village. I know they do shut them for the "winter" but I don't know when that starts for them. If they are shut off then I would go with about 3 liters on BAT as I generally use 1L per 5 miles. I agree with Stan on the interpretation of the narrows trip, and Angels Landing.

 

[TCD]

Enjoy! Don't know if you are bringing a dog, but remember that NPS is not dog friendly; you would have to make some kind of boarding arrangements.

 

[roadtripper]

Some tips:

~ the 5.0 mile round-trip hike up Angel's Landing in Zion is an absolute must. Top 10 day hike in the US in my opinion. Get up super-early to beat the crowds (6 or 7am). You'll be thankful you did. Avoid if you have a strong fear of heights (I'd call this class II+).
~ Best food in the Zion area is Meme's Cafe & Oscars in Springdale (this is the base town of Zion)
~ Don't miss the beautiful views behind the Zion Museum and at Court of the Patriarchs. These are best seen in the afternoon and are both amazing (the shuttle stops at both of these places, and each only takes 10-15 minutes)
~ If you hike up the Zion Narrows, you will reach a major fork after about 3 miles. Take a right to explore about 0.5 mile of Orderville Canyon (climb up the side of the 1st waterfall) and then return back and continue up the Narrows for about a mile to see 'Wall Street' (this is the best part of the Narrows in my opinion).
~ If you have time, do the drive from the South Rim to Zion the "long way" through Page, Arizona. Hike 1.2 miles to Horseshoe Bend, one of the best sights in the west. If you have more time available, book a "phtographers tour" of Upper Antelope Canyon. Or you can hike Wire Pass and explore some very cool sections of Buckskin Gulch. Both are beautiful slot canyons.
~ Al's Burgers in Kanab is so friggin delicious.
~ Observation Point in Zion was recently given the title "best view in Utah" by Backpacker. 8-mile round-trip hike. Similar views to Angel's Landing, so if you have to pick one, pick Angel's.
~ Bryce Canyon is only a few hours away if you find yourself with an extra day to kill

 

[Sabra]

A couple of comments to add to what has been said already:

1) The Narrows trail is beautiful. If you plan to go more than just half a mile, it is recommended to rent a suit because the water can get quite cold. We rented dry suits and it worked well for us. Definitely, go to the fork and past it. Although there is no much elevation gain or loss in this trail, if the water level is high, it is a workout. We spent 3 days in Zion - the first day we hiked to Observation Point, the second day to Angels Landing and the third day we did the Narrows; without a doubt, the most tiring day was the one we did the Narrows.

2) Bright Angel Trail has drinking water every 1.5 miles down to Indian Gardens (4.5 miles from the top) and then at the river, but in winter they close the top two to prevent pipe freezing and pipe damage. The bathrooms and water station at Indian Gardens are open year round. I am not sure when exactly they shut these water points down but I am sure the rangers at the visitor center will know.

Have fun! Both Zion and Grand Canyon are amazing places!

 

[Will]

...the Bright Angel trail, 15 mi loop ... use just trailrunners? Also, what about hydration requirements? Is at least 2L water+gatorade (half-half mixture I use) enough?

Grand Canyon: trail runners fine. 2L not nearly enough, but always water at Indian Garden and the BA Trailhead. Water stops at 1.5 and 3.0 down from trailhead PROBABLY still on for this coming weekend but need to be checked last minute, usually shut off for the winter some time between 10/15-10/30.

Not sure what you mean by the BA "loop." Down South Kaibab Trail to River and up Bright Angel Trail is frequently called a loop, about 16 miles, but really needs an overnight at Ranch (reservation hard to get) or BA campground (permit hard to get). Doable as a day hike by those in very good shape but I've never met a hiker who didn't regret doing it. Down SKT and cutting west over Tonto Trail to Indian Garden and then BA back up is also called a loop, maybe a little under 15 miles, and is sometimes done as a demanding day hike but again most people I've talked to get sick doing it.

Even in moderate day temps the sun just blazes you into submission. I've met dozens of gasping half-comatose hikers on the way back up from the river at the Indian Garden water stop over the years. Some others have died in the effort.

Down the BA to Indian Garden and then back up would be a reasonable day hike for a fit hiker, though I'd prefer a similar distance down the South Kaibab and back up, more scenic though no water at all.

 

[bikehikeskifish]

I have one day this November at the GC and am interested in suggestions here too. South Kaibab down and back has been recommended to me by people I've hiked with who have also done it, although the signs all say not to

Tim

 

[Will]

I have one day this November at the GC and am interested in suggestions here too. South Kaibab down and back has been recommended to me by people I've hiked with who have also done it, although the signs all say not to

I would say not to, too.

Here's what people who have done it (Rim to River and back) tell me:

1. They didn't enjoy it and wouldn't do it again.
2. Symptoms: light-headedness, nausea, headaches.

And again, people have died doing it.

Those who made it tend to shrug off the symptoms but I've been led to believe they may be signs of permanent damage.

Too much sun with no shade, too dry air, usually without a breeze, too short daylight this time of year to allow "holing up" mid-day (even if you could find shade when you need it), too much SUSTAINED elevation gain & loss. And the elevation gain comes after you've depleted your body on the huge descent. In some conditions you can't even drink enough water to keep hydrated without risking hyponatremia.

 

[MtnManJohn]

Thank you all for your responses! I greatly appreciate it. I head out early tomorrow morn ...

 

[DougPaul]

The rangers generally recommend 1 gal/person/day of water. The dry air and heat will suck water out of you and sweat may evaporate so quickly that you may be unaware of how much you are losing. (Add electrolytes to prevent hyponatremia. Powders are easy to carry and add on the trail.)

In contrast to the days, the nights are generally pretty cold due to the low humidity. (It was below freezing on the S Rim before dawn and in the mid-80s (F) down on the Tonto Plateau at mid-day. (April or May)

If you hike down to Indian Gardens (via Bright Angel Tr), you might consider continuing out to Plateau Point. This gives you a nice view of the Inner Canyon and has water at Indian Gardens on both the way in and out. The river is another 1300 vert ft down and back up.

Most of the Bright Angel Tr above Indian Gardens will be in the shade after ~mid-afternoon. Timing the climb out to be out of the sun will be a big help. (Don't forget a sun hat...)

Doug

 

[Will]

Plateau Point ... has water at Indian Gardens on both the way in and out.

There is also a drinking fountain out on the point, right on the path. Hard to miss if you're looking for it (sticks 3-4 feet up), but nobody sees it because it's so impossible the mind I think just rejects it.

 

[weatherman]

Sorry if this is too late, but though the forecast is sunny, warm and dry, there has been a lot of rain the past few weeks with leftover tropical moisture from a very active eastern Pacific hurricane season. We like this... our 3-4 year drought has been slowly but surely coming to an end at least temporarily. So bring water to drink, but expect more in the streams than is typically there this time of year. Enjoy!

 

[weatherman]

(forgot to "quote")- to BHSF's question:

I'd agree with "no" too, unless you have significant desert hiking experience. Getting dehydrated without realizing it is insanely easy even if you are paying attention. Been there, done that. Will's suggestion is a good one.

 

[carla]

+ 1 on advising against an up and back in one day. It doesn't matter that you are fit, it doesn't matter that that you are an experienced hiker. It's dangerous (people die doing this every year, as you know) and even if "achievable," it would probably not be much fun, and what's the point? If you only have one day,literally, it would likely be much more enjoyable to do a different hike---plenty of day hike options to choose from, even going halfway down rather than all the way--many beautiful trails to access, as long as you bring LOTS of water, even in Nov.

 

[TJsName]

Planning to visit the South Rim next week! Looking at a route of South Kaibab > Tonto > Bright Angel, which looks like it'll be in the 13 mile/3600' range. My biggest question is the shuttle situation. Should we park at Bright Angel lodge and take 2 shuttles in the AM, or park at the Visitor Center and take 1 shuttle, then just hike back (assuming we'll get back after the last shuttle). We have no qualms about hiking in the dark (and kind of want to given the full moon!), but want to make sure this isn't a dumb plan logistically (parking is bad, shuttles are bad, etc). Thanks for the advice!

 

[DougPaul]

Planning to visit the South Rim next week! Looking at a route of South Kaibab > Tonto > Bright Angel, which looks like it'll be in the 13 mile/3600' range. My biggest question is the shuttle situation. Should we park at Bright Angel lodge and take 2 shuttles in the AM, or park at the Visitor Center and take 1 shuttle, then just hike back (assuming we'll get back after the last shuttle). We have no qualms about hiking in the dark (and kind of want to given the full moon!), but want to make sure this isn't a dumb plan logistically (parking is bad, shuttles are bad, etc). Thanks for the advice!

I did the same route (plus a side trip out to Plateau Point). I parked near Bright Angel trailhead and took the earliest shuttle over to Yaki Point. This way when I got back to the rim, suitably tired and dehydrated, the car would be right there and I wouldn't have to worry about missing the last shuttle.

My biggest problem was finding where to park in the pre-dawn darkness. It may be worth scouting out the parking the day before.

BTW, I waited at Indian Garden til mid-afternoon so that I could get some shade on the way out and reached the rim at dusk.

The Bright Angel Trail above Indian Gardens is mostly in a side canyon so the moon may be blocked.

Doug

 

[TJsName]

Ahh, good to know. Perhaps we should reverse the route?

 

[DougPaul]

Ahh, good to know. Perhaps we should reverse the route?

Most people do the route CCW, however some do prefer CW. There are pros and cons to the reverse route (S Kaibab Tr follows a ridge most of the way):

Pros:
* views from the ridge
* possible breezes

Cons
* No water (last reliable water is at Indian Gardens).
* No Shade
* No parking at the trailhead. (Yaki Pt Rd was closed to private vehicles--some people parked across Rte 64 from Yaki Pt Rd when I was there. Don't know the current situation.)
* The SKT trailhead is a lonely spot.
* Some pretty steep spots
* The side trail to Plateau Pt occurs early enough that you may not know if you have the time.

Notes:
* Tonto Tr crosses Burro and Pipe Springs--neither is potable. (Don't know if they are ok with filtering.) Both were easy to cross.
* A section of the Tonto Tr N of Pipe Spring traverses above a large drop. The trail is slanted and has a gravelly surface. Some may find this spot to be a bit scarey.
* I found some crinoid(?) fossils along the Tonto Tr. And there are some petroglyphs on or near the arch just below the SBA trailhead.

I went CCW. I suggest that you do too. No matter which way you go, I suggest that you leave your car at or near your destination trailhead so you don't have to worry about catching the last bus--it is about a 5mi walk between the trailheads and could quite possibly be below freezing. And don't underestimate the value of shade on the way out.

If this is your first time hiking in the Desert SW, I suggest that you be conservative. Your NE acclimatized bodies will not be used to the heat and dryness--either of which can kill. It's a bit like NE winter hiking--it can be done safely, but it takes knowledge and experience. Also, the hard climb takes place at the end of the day...

EDIT: I recommend the following books:
* "Hiking the Grand Canyon" by John Annerino.
* "Grand Canyon Treks" by Harvey Butchart is also a good read.

Doug