Great article on Yvon Chouinard and the outdoor industry

[B the Hiker]

Simply fantastic read about Yvon Chouinard, who is my personal role model:
https://www.outsideonline.com/2201581/big-business-resist

When I asked Chouinard what people outside the company don’t understand about Patagonia, he said, “How serious we are about basically saving the planet.”

Brian

 

[TCD]

Very accomplished guy. I have always been impressed by him as a climber and a developer of climbing hardware.

But the company, and his legacy are degraded when they put vulgar and childish political messages on their product labels.

 

[egilbe]

I like their "stuff". Its basically sized for an average skinny dude, who I no longer am, but if I buy a size larger, it fits pretty well.

 

[B the Hiker]

Very accomplished guy. I have always been impressed by him as a climber and a developer of climbing hardware.

But the company, and his legacy are degraded when they put vulgar and childish political messages on their product labels.

It makes me love them even more! I admire his outspokenness, his ability to speak truth to power, his willingness to take a stance and be bold at a time when few others were willing to do so, even if it threatened to lower his company's sales (turns out to be the opposite, but he didn't know that at the time), and to fight the fights that need to be fought.

Thanks to Chouinard, the other outdoor companies discovered they are rewarded for standing up for the outdoors. The North Face now refuses to sell branded jackets and vests to oil and gas companies, for example. I don't think they would have done that without Patagonia taking the lead.

 

[ChrisB]

Thanks to Chouinard, the other outdoor companies discovered they are rewarded for standing up for the outdoors. The North Face now refuses to sell branded jackets and vests to oil and gas companies, for example. I don't think they would have done that without Patagonia taking the lead.

I remember Chouinard,visiting the Valley and climbing with the locals in the 70s. He was a pretty humble guy, part blacksmith hammering out pitons and ice axes and part visionary developing the first clean climbing nuts, stoppers and other state-of-the-art climbing hardware.

Patagonia was a real move upmarket for him. I can't afford most of their stuff and like North Face much of it is "logo-ware" for the well to do. He's come a long way from the 70s and his dirtbag roots in the Great Pacific Iron Works. But he's still in Ventura!

He' remains a visionary and walks the walk where climate issues are concerned. (How his boards of directors tolerate that I don't know.) Long live Yvon!

 

[maineguy]

Thanks to Chouinard, the other outdoor companies discovered they are rewarded for standing up for the outdoors. The North Face now refuses to sell branded jackets and vests to oil and gas companies, for example. I don't think they would have done that without Patagonia taking the lead.

Wow! What a courageous stand by North Face. How about this: North Face no longer uses oil or gas products in the development, manufacture and distribution of their product? Talk about virtue signalling. And for those who think the oil and gas industry is destroying the earth, just stop using oil and gas. Walk to the trailhead on your next hike.

 

[skiguy]

if there is a tool there is a way.

 

[B the Hiker]

Wow! What a courageous stand by North Face. How about this: North Face no longer uses oil or gas products in the development, manufacture and distribution of their product? Talk about virtue signalling. And for those who think the oil and gas industry is destroying the earth, just stop using oil and gas. Walk to the trailhead on your next hike.

I don't think the oil and gas industries are leading to global warming, I know they are. As do the folks at Patagonia. They work extremely hard to limit their carbon footprint, recycle, get people to repair their products so they don't have to buy new ones, and use renewable energy. So do I! We purchase 100% renewable energy where I live, I drive a hybrid electric vehicle, try to own as little as possible, and limit my harm to the planet.

There is a difference between not doing everything, and doing what you can. I'm not sure I'm doing what I can, but at least I do something, and I reward companies that take the same stance. Given Patagonia's growth, it seems there are others out there who feel the same way.

Brian

 

[egilbe]

Don't you find it ironic that Patagonia's clothing is made from old dinosaurs? I have no idea why NF would refuse to sell petroleum based clothing to petroleum producers. Seems like a match made in hell, to me. More Virtue signaling that has no real affect on global warming. Pandemic has done more to curb global warming than any outdoor company.

 

[maineguy]

Yvon Chouinard is a billionaire. He didn't acquire all that money by using alternative forms of energy to manufacture and transport his goods. Maybe now he does, but he's got his money and now he can pontificate to us all how he is going to save the planet. And how much of his stuff is manufactured in Asia? China? They're the worst polluters on the planet.

 

[B the Hiker]

And how much of his stuff is manufactured in Asia? China?

Here's your answer! (I assume you read the article, you will find this enlightening as well)

https://www.patagonia.com/stories/patagonia-clothing-made-where-how-why/story-18467.html

 

[maineguy]

I don't think the oil and gas industries are leading to global warming, I know they are.

Brian

To quote Edwin Armstrong: " It ain't ignorance that causes all the trouble in this world. It's the things people know that ain't so."

Unless you are a climate scientist, you only have an opinion based on what you read, like me. We have beliefs, but neither of us "knows".

Why don't we "deconstruct" this whole construct of global warming and have our own version of the truth

 

[B the Hiker]

If every time someone tries to post something positive on Views, they get trolled for it, pretty soon this forum will be dead. I hope the moderators consider that fact.

Speaking of facts, global warming is an inconvenient truth, and I'm not going to debate that with anyone. This is a thread about an article on Yvon Chouinard. Let's keep that focus, please. In a time when the world is lacking in moral leadership, Chouinard helps show me the way. I hope he does so for others as well.

Brian

 

[Tom_Murphy]

To quote Edwin Armstrong: " It ain't ignorance that causes all the trouble in this world. It's the things people know that ain't so."

Unless you are a climate scientist, you only have an opinion based on what you read, like me. We have beliefs, but neither of us "knows".

Why don't we "deconstruct" this whole construct of global warming and have our own version of the truth

It is difficult to have a discussion without an understanding of each other's opinions.

With that in mind, a few question I am curious about that I am hopeful you will reply to.

Do you agree or disagree with the studies indicating that the the global average and combined land and ocean surface temperature has increased 0.85 °C [0.65 to 1.06] °C], in the period 1880 to 2012; i.e since we have established an instrumental temperature record?

Do you agree or disagree with studies indicating atmospheric concentrations of greenhouse gases have increased significantly in the period 1880 to 2012; i.e since we have established an instrumental temperature record?

I have some empathy for the argument that correlation is not the same as causation.

Thanks.

 

[skiguy]

If every time someone tries to post something positive on Views, they get trolled for it, pretty soon this forum will be dead. I hope the moderators consider that fact

Brian

There is a big difference between being trolled and someone disagreeing with you. I don't see any trolling going on just some folks that don't totally agree with the OP and are offering up their own opinion. I agree that Yvon has done a lot for the outdoor community and the outdoor manufacturing industry. Yes he has been a leader. But I think his company has also been one of the leaders in the manufacturing of goods that make it look like you play in the outdoors when you really don't that much. That is an unnecessary waste. Rather than sticking to the necessary products from a survival standpoint Patagonia like many other Outdoor Retailers offer a huge amount of product that is fashionable. I find that dichotomous and hypocritical to the no dirt on my hands marketing picture they try to paint. Yes they are probably more environmentally conscious than some outdoor companies but they are far from perfect.

 

[maineguy]

If every time someone tries to post something positive on Views, they get trolled for it, pretty soon this forum will be dead. I hope the moderators consider that fact.
Brian

.

You didn't post something "positive". You posted an article ostensibly on Yvon Chouinard which had lots of opinion about that dastardly man in the white house and how he and his minions are killing the planet. I simply responded. Don't post controversial subjects if you don't want to hear any disagreeable comments. And yeah, I get that you don't think it's controversial, but that's part of the problem.

 

[maineguy]

It is difficult to have a discussion without an understanding of each other's opinions.

With that in mind, a few question I am curious about that I am hopeful you will reply to.

Do you agree or disagree with the studies indicating that the the global average and combined land and ocean surface temperature has increased 0.85 °C [0.65 to 1.06] °C], in the period 1880 to 2012; i.e since we have established an instrumental temperature record?

Do you agree or disagree with studies indicating atmospheric concentrations of greenhouse gases have increased significantly in the period 1880 to 2012; i.e since we have established an instrumental temperature record?

I have some empathy for the argument that correlation is not the same as causation.

Thanks.

Well Tom, I think you have answered your own question there, but I'll play along for the moment. The science of climatology is complicated enough without the political forces screwing with it. I am not going to answer your questions directly, but instead direct you to a neutral website (Britannica) that explores the subject in a pro/con evenhanded manner. I thought it was refreshing.

https://climatechange.procon.org/?g...6wIVk5OzCh3J6QajEAAYAyAAEgIguvD_BwE#arguments

 

[B the Hiker]

.

You didn't post something "positive". You posted an article ostensibly on Yvon Chouinard which had lots of opinion about that dastardly man in the white house and how he and his minions are killing the planet. I simply responded. Don't post controversial subjects if you don't want to hear any disagreeable comments. And yeah, I get that you don't think it's controversial, but that's part of the problem.

If you want to disagree about Yvon Chouinard, that's your business. I think Patagonia works extremely hard to be a good, decent company, you apparently don't. You leveled an attack, I responded. You leveled another attack, I responded. That's fine. It's a waste of our time, but whatever. But I wasn't talking about that.

I was talking about the fact that I posted an article about Yvon Chouinard and you hijacked it to deny climate change. If you want to deny climate change, create a thread and do so. But, as I said before, this is a thread about Yvon Chouinard, and let's keep it that way.

 

[JoshandBaron]

Well Tom, I think you have answered your own question there, but I'll play along for the moment. The science of climatology is complicated enough without the political forces screwing with it. I am not going to answer your questions directly, but instead direct you to a neutral website (Britannica) that explores the subject in a pro/con evenhanded manner. I thought it was refreshing.

https://climatechange.procon.org/?g...6wIVk5OzCh3J6QajEAAYAyAAEgIguvD_BwE#arguments

You didn't happen to actually check their references on the con side, did you? For example, in just the first 'con' they claim to have found 1000 "scientists" to disagree. They did that by calling anyone with a BS a scientist. The second part of that 'con' was sourced from a study conducted by a non-scientific organization. A lot of the cons were referenced from folks associated with the Heartland Institute and put up against scientific studies conducted by reputable scientific organizations like NASA.

 

[TCD]

I was talking about the fact that I posted an article about Yvon Chouinard and you hijacked it to deny climate change. If you want to deny climate change, create a thread and do so. But, as I said before, this is a thread about Yvon Chouinard, and let's keep it that way.

Well, actually you hijacked your own thread. Sorry, but it's the case. You were the first one to mention "oil and gas companies," and the first one to use the term "global warming" in the thread. Now you say you don't want to debate global warming. Fine, I don't want to either.