Grizzly bear trees mtn guide and hiker..

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I hike out there often. Everyone carries bear spray. Bear spray is considered an essential hiking item. It is considered just as important as water. This guide should have done more research prior to this trip.

If you do a backcountry hike in Glacier National Park (about 200 miles south of where they were), the NPS makes you watch a video on how to handle bears before granting you a backcountry permit. And, you must watch this video every time you get a permit. GNP has about 25% of the population of grizzly bears in the USA. I see them every time I visit. Unlike black bears, they have a bad disposition. Once you get into their 500' envelope you take the risk of a charge. You also have to be careful to make sure you don't have any food smell on you. But, most of the time, they just try to avoid humans. Some one probably feed this guy. Dropping your pack in GNP will earn you a ticket from rangers. Climbing a tree is not real smart idea either. If you use good hiking procedures, bears out there are rarely a problem.

Bear spray is 90% effective. It will knock a 1,000 pound griz for about 10 minutes, or deter them from approaching you further. It is strong enough to burn your skin.
 
+1

good info. thank You.

I hike out there often. Everyone carries bear spray. Bear spray is considered an essential hiking item. It is considered just as important as water. This guide should have done more research prior to this trip.

If you do a backcountry hike in Glacier National Park (about 200 miles south of where they were), the NPS makes you watch a video on how to handle bears before granting you a backcountry permit. And, you must watch this video every time you get a permit. GNP has about 25% of the population of grizzly bears in the USA. I see them every time I visit. Unlike black bears, they have a bad disposition. Once you get into their 500' envelope you take the risk of a charge. You also have to be careful to make sure you don't have any food smell on you. But, most of the time, they just try to avoid humans. Some one probably feed this guy. Dropping your pack in GNP will earn you a ticket from rangers. Climbing a tree is not real smart idea either. If you use good hiking procedures, bears out there are rarely a problem.

Bear spray is 90% effective. It will knock a 1,000 pound griz for about 10 minutes, or deter them from approaching you further. It is strong enough to burn your skin.
 
Dropping your pack in GNP will earn you a ticket from rangers. Climbing a tree is not real smart idea either. .

I think dropping the packs and climbing a tree was the best options they had in the situation they were in and not having pepper spray.

If you didn't have pepper spray what would you have done?

Myself, I'd hope the odor from crapping my pants drifting down the tree as the bear climbed up would be a deterrent. :eek:

I wonder if the guide was above or below his client in the tree? :D
 
I hike out there often. Everyone carries bear spray. Bear spray is considered an essential hiking item. It is considered just as important as water. This guide should have done more research prior to this trip.
Barry Blanchard is a highly skilled climber and professional guide who has climbed in this area before--he is more skilled than the vast majority (perhaps all) of the people who post on this BBS. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Barry_Blanchard This was a technical climb that he had done before and traveling light is part of technical climbing. Bear spray is just another safety vs. weight trade-off.

If you do a backcountry hike in Glacier National Park
The Canadian Rockies are not GNP. They have their own regs (and are very aware of bears).

Doug
 
From the report, "Parks Canada officials say the bear, which has been involved in other encounters this summer, has since moved on."
"Other encounters" suggests that this bear is habituated or particularly aggressive.

I wonder if this is a "nice" way of saying the bear was "retired" or put down.
No--it probably means that the bear has traveled away from the scene of this incident. The article does say that the bear is wearing a radio collar and can be tracked electronically.

Doug
 
...Everyone carries bear spray...

This is simply not true. I've only been out there once (2 weeks in Banff, Jasper, and Yoho), but the vast majority of hikers I saw did NOT have pepper spray. We did several hikes far from the road, and I always carried spray, and yes any guide out there should be carrying it, but in my single 2-week very crowded summer trip, most pack belts I saw were free of pepper spray.
Same goes for my trips to Grand Tetons and Yellowstone...most hikers I saw did NOT carry spray.

As far as not dropping packs and not climbing trees, sure, in a perfect world everyone would read Herrero's book and memorize all the stats and do's and don'ts when facing a grizzly versus facing a black. But when it hits the fan and you're really facing the business end of the situation, people are gonna do whatever the can to save their lives. I look down my nose at people who litter on the trail and the a-holes who don't know how to shut up during campground quiet hours, but I don't criticize people's actions when facing an approaching griz. I know it's a tired old saying, but "unless you were there, you weren't there."
 
No--it probably means that the bear has traveled away from the scene of this incident. The article does say that the bear is wearing a radio collar and can be tracked electronically.

Doug

Guides we spoke to on Mt. Rainier this summer used a phrase I can't remember exactly right now, but when they have aggressive fox at Muir camp, the problem fox are removed (my word which may or may not be the one the guide used), in other words taken out, or more dramatically stated, killed.
 
As far as not dropping packs and not climbing trees, sure, in a perfect world everyone would read Herrero's book and memorize all the stats and do's and don'ts when facing a grizzly versus facing a black. But when it hits the fan and you're really facing the business end of the situation, people are gonna do whatever the can to save their lives.
The recommendations are based upon statistics of past encounters and can only suggest the strategy that is most likely to have a good outcome (for the human). The bears, however, have not read the book and do not always follow its recommendations. (Even if they had read the book, they might still not follow the recommendations...)

Doug
 
"Bear spray is just another safety vs. weight trade-off."

Mikie knows what he's talking about and is a very experienced hiker in grizzly country. Everyone makes their own choices, but for my money, I'd opt for a 12oz can of high potency bear spray and maybe toss few less munchies or extra pair of socks out of the pack.
 
This is simply not true. I've only been out there once (2 weeks in Banff, Jasper, and Yoho), but the vast majority of hikers I saw did NOT have pepper spray.

Maybe I should have made my statements more clear. GNP is different from Jasper, Banff, Yoho, etc. Jasper, Banff, and Yoho are more like the ADK's. There is public property and private property mixed together. So, you do get a lot of people who are traveling thru and stop and get out and hike a little bit. Or, maybe do a day hike. I don't consider those people hikers. I consider people on this forum hikers. So, when I refer to everyone, I refer to serious hikers who hike every day on their trips to these regions, backcountry hikers, rock climbers, etc. I don't consider people who walk up to the base of Kaaterskill Falls in Flip Flops hikers. Or, even someone who hikes once a year. Maybe I should have said Serious Hikers instead. My mistake.

I do belong to a number of hiking forums out in that region. I don't know any hikers on those forums who don't carry bear spray. There are also hikers who keep their bear spray hidden from view. So, if you don't see it, it doesn't mean that they don't have it. Sometimes it is in their jacket pocket, or in a pack pocket, or some other hidden location. I carry bear spray on 100% of my hikes. If you have ever hiked with me, you would be surprised that I have it. It sits inside my pack on almost all my hikes. I only bring it out if I think that there is a pretty good probability of an up-close and personal bear encounter.

I could consult Dave Parker, who runs a number of hiking forums out west. He works for one of the bear spray mfg. He might have a better statistic on this issue.

Grizzly bears are the same whether you are in Yellowstone, GNP, or Jasper. Some have good personalities, and some don't. Each encounter is different. Never know what the encounter will be like. But, you should never use the same procedures with grizzlies like you do with Black Bears. Black bears are almost always very docile, where griz's are quite aggressive. If you ever stay at Many Glacier Hotel inside GNP, you can sit on the porch next to Swiftcurrent Lake and watch the grizzlies and other animals interact on the mountainside. You often see a lot of charges when other animals encounter their feeding envelope. You can learn a lot about them by watching them.

As far as dropping your pack, this is exactly what the Rangers do not want you to do. You can hear Rangers saying this statement often, "A fed bear is a dead bear." Once it is fed, they will kill the bear. Grizzlies learn by experience. Once they learn that humans have food, they will pursue them relentlessly. If you are going to hike where there are grizzlies, you need to learn about how to hike around them. Follow the rules, and you will have few problems. If you do have a bad encounter, bear spray is your insurance policy.

Climbing trees or running often incites the griz to pursue you. You would be amazed how high they can go. Some will go up in the tree until the tree or branch breaks. Or, they will shake the tree to make you fall out. They would have been better off dropping a piece of clothing or a hat. This will sometimes distract the bear long enough for them to get away.

Pepper spray and bear spray have different chemical composition. Depending upon which state you are in, they are treated different legally. If I recall correctly, bear spray is 10x more powerful then pepper spray.
 
From the NY Times: Sometimes the Bear Gets You. Well written, starts off with:
GRAND TETON NATIONAL PARK, Wyo. — In bear country, you listen for a crunch of twigs under a sharpened paw the size of a catcher’s mitt, and imagine that behind every tree lurks the swollen head and tiny eyes of the grizzly with the apt Latin name — ursus arctos horribilis.
 
"Recent reports show bear pepper spray to be more effective than a firearm in diverting or stopping a charging bear"

wow....I'd like to read that "study"
 
never had trouble with bears

I've hiked in Grizz country several times and had the pleasure of never seeing a bear. I did cook away from the camp and kept my clothes clean of food debris. I could not really hang my food because most of the time there weren't any trees to hang the food.

But times may be changing, perhaps. The bears might be losing fear of humans. If that is true then the only thing that will help is (unfortunately) people with guns instilling the fear of death back into the bears. Sooner or later it will be rare to see a grizzly just as it is rare to see a deer or a turkey during hunting season. :)

I won't be doing the blasting though. . .
 
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