Guns on the trail

[TJsName]

I think brandishing is a bit more flagrant than open carry in a holster. Open carry would not make me nervous, but brandishing might. I think I have seen one person open carrying in 8 years and hundreds of hikes. No idea how many concealed carriers. Never once brandishing though - I'm certain of that.

Tim

I thought we we primarily talking about open carry. If someone carries concealed, how would I know to avoid them?

 

[TJsName]

Besides, you just never know when a zombie apocalypse will show up

You don't see zombie movies set in the mountains enough. I think I have seen a few postholing up a few trails though.

 

[bikehikeskifish]

I thought we we primarily talking about open carry. If someone carries concealed, how would I know to avoid them?

I was responding to your brandishing comment. I don't think brandishing is the same as open carry. Open carry (simple possession) does not alarm me. Brandishing might.

Tim

 

[TJsName]

I was responding to your brandishing comment. I don't think brandishing is the same as open carry. Open carry (simple possession) does not alarm me. Brandishing might.

Tim

Well, then I guess I should clarify - to me, brandishing a weapon means to carry it in a way that attracts attention (and elicits emotions - anything from fear to envy, really), so I suppose that is situational. I would not say that people at a firing range or a hunter in the woods are brandishing weapons when they carry them out in the open. But someone walking around with a gun (or any weapon for that matter) in a situation where that weapon serves no obvious purpose (such as on top of a mountain)? To me, that is brandishing.

Perhaps this is not a fair use of the word, but that is how I use it. Feel free to suggest a better word or phrase. I sit next to a Wellesley grad, so I'm accustomed to tweaking my lexicon for my own safety.

If I believed there was a good reason to bring a hand gun hiking, I'd be much less alarmed.

 

[bikehikeskifish]

To me, I am brandishing a Nalgene if I am prepared to drink from it (top off bottle in hand) as compared to carrying it visibly stowed and capped on the outside of my pack.

To my understanding, the use of brandishing is not situational. I might take a drink atop a mountain or I night take a drink walking alongside a road.

Tim

 

[NeoAkela]

I have a friend who several years ago had a gun pulled on their black lab along one of the more popular Franconia Notch trails. The lab, a friendly dog, was unleashed and the armed hiker demanded that the dog be leashed because he "feared for his life". He threatened to shoot the dog on the spot if his demands were not met immediately. This was witnessed by several folks, including several children hiking with both parties.

The police became involved later in the day and it was determined that since the groups were within the State Park grounds, the dog owner was in the wrong (for having an unleashed dog) and the gun-waving hiker with a permit for an unconcealed weapon was well within his rights to brandish his weapon at the dog and it's owners.

But, back to the subject... with the exception of the above mentioned incident, I guess I am OK with someone carrying an unconcealed gun with them on the hiking trails. I certainly do not understand the need to do this, but I respect the right. If someone meant to do harm with a weapon, then a concealed gun or knife would be much more of a concern, and any passing hiker could easily have one - no reason to avoid everyone you meet. I also hope any gun-carrying hikers are not planning to fire their weapon for sport or amusement - that type of behavior should stay off the trails in respect for everyone who enjoys the quiet solitude of the mountains and hopes to see some wildlife along the way.

 

[Chachie]

Well, then I guess I should clarify - to me, brandishing a weapon means to carry it in a way that attracts attention (and elicits emotions - anything from fear to envy, really), so I suppose that is situational. I would not say that people at a firing range or a hunter in the woods are brandishing weapons when they carry them out in the open. But someone walking around with a gun (or any weapon for that matter) in a situation where that weapon serves no obvious purpose (such as on top of a mountain)? To me, that is brandishing.

Brandishing a weapon is a crime in certain cases (most I think). It means to wave or flourish in a threatening manner. Carrying a firearm on one's hip isn't quite the same. Maybe "Ostentatious Carry" would be a better term?

I have a friend who several years ago had a gun pulled on their black lab along one of the more popular Franconia Notch trails. The lab, a friendly dog, was unleashed and the armed hiker demanded that the dog be leashed because he "feared for his life". He threatened to shoot the dog on the spot if his demands were not met immediately. This was witnessed by several folks, including several children hiking with both parties.

The police became involved later in the day and it was determined that since the groups were within the State Park grounds, the dog owner was in the wrong (for having an unleashed dog) and the gun-waving hiker with a permit for an unconcealed weapon was well within his rights to brandish his weapon at the dog and it's owners.

Aiming a handgun at a dog is definitely a threatening gesture. Aiming a hand gun at a person is a crime (at least in MA it is).



I guess the best advice would be: Keep your gun in your pocket, and your dog on a leash!

 

[TJsName]

Brandishing a weapon is a crime in certain cases (most I think). It means to wave or flourish in a threatening manner. Carrying a firearm on one's hip isn't quite the same. Maybe "Ostentatious Carry" would be a better term?

I'm willing to sign on to that. Tim?

 

[gaiagirl]

Odd that this should come up ..... I was heading up Greeley Ponds last week when 3 men caught up to me while I stopped to add layers and consider other options for my hike due to the wind and cold. They appeared to be a man and his sons in their 20s. One of the younger ones was carrying a very large gun on his pack. I was confused and somewhat intimidated when I saw it and the father could obviously tell, remarking that "it's just a pellet gun". Being unaccustomed to and not terribly comfortable around guns, I was grateful for the explanation, but still fairly confused about why anyone would need one on a hiking trail. I don't really know what is in season at the moment, though I suppose hare and grouse possibly always are, but I guess I assumed it was not permissible to hunt in a national forest. I am probably wrong about this and my bunny-hugger perspective is now showing .

 

[bikehikeskifish]

I'm willing to sign on to that. Tim?

We're on the same page. One is your right and the other violates mine

Tim

 

[Raven]

Brandishing a weapon is a crime in certain cases (most I think). It means to wave or flourish in a threatening manner. Carrying a firearm on one's hip isn't quite the same. Maybe "Ostentatious Carry" would be a better term?

There already is a good term for it, "open carry." It's a term that doesn't carry any positive or negative connotations with it by design.

I spoke at length with an older gent on Signal Ridge (Mt. Carrigain, NH) a couple of years ago who had one holstered. I asked. He said it was for bear. Now, I know and you know and he knew that we don't need guns for bear in NH, but I know and you know and he knew, that he can carry one for any reason he wants. He wasn't the slightest bit threatening.

To be fair, I grew up in a very rural area around a lot of guns and hunters. We did not get mid winter break in February in HS; instead we had a week off at Thanksgiving. Why? Middle of deer season. We ALL had guns. We did not brandish them. Mostly they sat in rifle cabinets. I rarely shot them. Sometimes someone would forget and leave their rifle in the gun rack after a weekend of hunting and drive to school. They would get sent home to put it away. There was no lockdown necessary as there was no threat. Growing up around them, you get a very different perspective than if most of your "firearm education" comes from watching criminals on the news or Hollywood, and that's understandable. When you grow up around firearms, I think it's much easier to separate criminal from weapon. The two can understandably become intertwined from story after story of murder, threats, gang violence, etc. so I can certainly see where people can feel threatened by them, but that's different from there actually being a threat when someone wants to cause you harm.

I think it's crazy to carry the extra weight on a hiking trail, but I'll worry about what's in my pack.

Almost on cue, 5 shots just rang out from not far away and I could hear them a few hours ago around dinnertime when jumping on the trampoline with my daughter. I honestly didn't think twice about it and my daughter simply commented that someone was firing a gun. No sirens.

 

[tomcat32]

I think the last Maine death by bear was in the 30s by a captive bear attacking it's "keeper" in its cage. Other than hunters in season, I never really seen any people carrying in Maine. Then again most of the hikes I do I don't see that many people. When I lived in Pennsylvania I would see holstered handguns more frequently out of hunting season. One that sticks in my head was a husband and wife each with a holstered revolver to shoot rattlesnakes. I had many rattlesnake encounters in PA (and out west) and unless you step on or near it or taunt it, there isn't any danger, just go around them. I think this pair would shoot them just to shoot them.

 

[summitseeker]

I feel that this matter, like so many important debates, is not as black and white as a few people have suggested.

I am a gun owner, I believe in the 2nd Amendment, but misuse of the "Stand Your Ground" law scares the hell out of me. Most gun lovers believe you have to a liberal to consider any changes in gun control and some liberals believe all gun owners are fans of Ted Nugent and Fox News.

If someone feels that they are in a situation where they truly need a firearm then they should do so in a manner that takes into account the same sense of security for others. If I saw someone in a remote area with a firearm I, personally, would feel little discomfort. Last summer however I encountered a man with a .40 caliber Glock style pistol on his hip on Cannon Mountain. Not Isolation, not Owl's Head, nowhere near Alaska, and certainly not South Central Los Angeles. I stopped and chatted with him among literally hundreds of tram-traveling tourists and mixed groups of hikers.

I was curious why an individual would feel the need to bring a pistol on top of a very well-travelled and family populated location. He and his friend were not coming from the Kinsmans or even the Cannonballs. It was the short and direct route from the ski resort and not a multi-day trip in the wild. I finally asked him why he had his pistol with him for this particular hike. He replied, "Well, there are a lot of weirdos out there". All I could think was, Wow, today buddy, you are the weirdo.

I am not saying this man didn't have the right to bring his weapon along for the hike but Cannon Mountain on a summer day is like bringing a high powered, scoped rifle to the park. It isn't quite the appropriate venue and it certainly makes other unarmed people nervous. I know someone out there would say that if I am worried about a person carrying a weapon in a relatively public and populated place than I too should carry my gun. But an entirely armed America is a nightmare scenario for civilians as well as law enforcement. This is just my opinion but also the opinion of someone who is in favor of the 2nd Amendment with the caveat of responsible gun ownership.

Z

 

[TomD]

I've seen gun threads on other sites quickly deteriorate into threads that get locked or deleted because of the vitriol on both sides, so I will try not to be too judgmental. However, having said that, unless I can see that someone is a hunter, I am suspicious of someone carrying a gun, but not the reason you might think. In my mind and I'm sure this will draw some criticism, but I can live with that, people carry guns, especially handguns, for two reasons - one, they intend to harm someone or some animal, or two, more likely, they are afraid and think the gun will protect them. People who are afraid often make bad decisions. Happens all the time. My concern with guns in national parks, or anywhere else while hiking or camping is being shot by some paranoid, inexperienced camper who thinks that he or she is going to die or be hurt unless they are armed and pull their weapon as soon as they hear a noise in the dark. Call me paranoid, but I really wish armed hikers was not something I have to worry about.

I used to live in New Zealand, where guns are strictly controlled. No one seems to be worse off or less free because of these restrictions. Hunters still hunt, in fact the only time I saw a weapon down there was in the hands of a hunter. It never crossed my mind that while I was hiking, someone down there other than a hunter would be armed. Not to say there isn't gun violence there, but nowhere near the scale as here.Oh, telling me not to worry because all of you with guns are trained, etc. won't help because that's just not true.

 

[unlikely hiker]

When I see a hunter going off with a rifle I understand he is hunting and has a purpose for his gun. A policeman puts on a gun for a purpose. When I see a hiker carrying a gun it is the lack of purpose that makes me nervous.
I hike solo most of the time and have never been afraid - of other hikers or wildlife - it would take a lot of the fun out of hiking if I was worried all the time. I find fellow hikers some of the nicest people ever and love stopping to chat.
As far as bear are concerned I carry a small airhorn. That thing would scare anything away and is harmless.
Just because you can do something doesn't necessarily mean you should - guns really have no place on the trail.

 

[Raven]

We've had several people show up at the BLM tower with a gun on display. One was carrying a rifle in his hand. He set it down at the base of the tower and then climbed up. I started chatting with him, and he said when he carried a gun, everyone was really nice to him. (It was not hunting season)

That, to me, is an irresponsible gun owner. Leaving a rifle unattended at the bottom of a tower on public land is not appropriate as the owner is not protecting the weapon.

Open carry is one of those things that people do for a variety of reasons. I am a supporter of the second amendment with views in the same ballpark as SummitSeeker. Here's a perspective that I think is not uncommon: I don't generally need nor want to carry a gun onto a hiking trail nor would I suggest I needed one for bears or snakes and I don't expect to need one for threats either. Those are personal motivations. However, if I thought people with an actual chance of success were moving to reverse the open carry law, I'd holster one in public tomorow to show support. I don't need to carry; but I'm not planning to allow that right to be taken from me either (nor any others for that matter).

I don't expect the data on gun violence in hiking areas is any worse that the data on bear violence in hiking areas in the northeast. I can't recall the last time I heard about a bear attacking a person in NH. Similarly, I'm not reading many stories where somebody got shot on a hiking trail either. We do however seem to have an awful lot of potholes this year that need our attention if we are going to get to the trailheads.

 

[Tom Rankin]

That, to me, is an irresponsible gun owner. Leaving a rifle unattended at the bottom of a tower on public land is not appropriate as the owner is not protecting the weapon.

Open carry is one of those things that people do for a variety of reasons. I am a supporter of the second amendment with views in the same ballpark as SummitSeeker. Here's a perspective that I think is not uncommon: I don't generally need nor want to carry a gun onto a hiking trail nor would I suggest I needed one for bears or snakes and I don't expect to need one for threats either. Those are personal motivations. However, if I thought people with an actual chance of success were moving to reverse the open carry law, I'd holster one in public tomorow to show support. I don't need to carry; but I'm not planning to allow that right to be taken from me either (nor any others for that matter).

I don't expect the data on gun violence in hiking areas is any worse that the data on bear violence in hiking areas in the northeast. I can't recall the last time I heard about a bear attacking a person in NH. Similarly, I'm not reading many stories where somebody got shot on a hiking trail either. We do however seem to have an awful lot of potholes this year that need our attention if we are going to get to the trailheads.

I agree, irresponsible.

This was a post worthy of a green square, but I'm fresh out!

 

[dug]

I would be much more concerned about seeing someone with a gun in the city than in the woods. Seeing someone hiking with a holstered pistol has never given me any cause for concern. Absolutely zero.

 

[Tuck]

No legitimate reason for carrying a gun on the trail. Please don't.

 

[MichaelJ]

When I see a hiker with a handgun, and I have, I think, as others here have stated, "What are they so afraid of?" Then I worry that I'm going to get shot popping out of the woods back onto the trail after taking a pee.

Brandishing a gun is like brandishing a baseball bat around. It makes you wonder why, and it makes that person the threat. Pointing it at someone is assault with a deadly weapon, that makes the gun owner a target for justified self defense or the aid of others.

If you're not hunting, that's a piece of dead weight to have to carry, I just don't understand why anyone would want to take one on a hike. Defense against unfriendly dogs is a lame reason, because the only thing it can do is kill, not deter.