Handguns on the trail

[McRat]

A concerned friend and competition shooter advised that I carry and I seriously considered it.

-----------------------------

Last March, I had an instance before a hike where I idiotically mistook a snowmobile trail for a parking lot trail and as soon as I went off the hardpack, I sunk and wound up balancing on my skid plates... four tires spinning in place. A man in a snowmobile came by (This was 11:30 or so at night, for a 1:00am start) and offered to come back with his truck. He towed me back to the road and offered to let me come back to his shop to warm up. I figured I'd slip the guy some cash for helping me, particularly when I saw his place and realized how little he must have.

As soon as we arrived at his garage, the door shut behind me. Within one minute he told me he was off his anti-psychotic meds. By the third minute he was wrapped in a passionate argument against government and computers, and before long he's offering me 'a genny'. After politely listening and quickly finishing the beer, I said I have to be going.

Things went wrong here. I found myself looking down the stainless-steel barrel of a Ruger Python .357, "YOU'RE A COP, AREN'T YA?!?!"

For the next hour I did everything to keep this guy in his 'calm zone'. Now and then the gun would point my way, and that 3/8" hole looked like the grand canyon each time. He kept handing me another Genny, and sharing unusual viewpoints, interspersed with threatening questions like the first.

I kept drinking them - one because it was demanded, two because it might keep me from running screaming into the night, and lastly - because if state police ever find a six pack of Genessee beer in my system, my friends would know it was under duress.

Suddenly I mention that I think I saw my friends drive by and that we were off to hike Waumbek before spring officially starts. He laughs and says, "You and your friends sound CRAZY, man."

The guy starts to open the garage door, I say thanks and start walking toward the door. Just when it is halfway up, he stops the door and yells, "HEY!"

I'm not sure if I should take my chances and slide under the door and bolt for the car, or see what's up. I slowly turn to face him expecting to see that gun, and then nothing but a bright light that I'm not afraid to enter.

He finishes, "Hey you wanna exchange numbers in case you're back in the area?"

-----------------


In hindsight it IS kind of funny, but I decided I needed to reassess my handgun policy.

I can tell you with 100% certainty, that if I had a gun on my person, I was scared enough to use it.

Assuming I pull the gun, who is more likely to hesitate in a gunfight - a computer nerd with minimal handgun training...or a certified psychotic who already had his gun out... who suspected I was sent my the government to spy on him?

I support the right to self-defense in general. In this case, there was a good chance someone would get shot. Assuming that I wasn't the victim - I may have killed a man who today might be back on his meds, living a better life, and perhaps even willing to help another hiker in need.

He towed my car, got me drunk, scared me $#!+less, but I'm alive to hike, and he's alive to snowmobile.

This is why I've decided not to carry on the trail.

 

[giggy]

mcrat - are you freaking kidding?? - man, now that is a horrifying story. where was this lot, so i don't ever go there

that had deliverance written all over it

that is a crazy encounter.

 

[Oldmanwinter]

Do I pass by people every time I hike that are armed and don't even know it, or is this rare?

If you ask this question, you pass people everytime you go anywhere that are armed and don't even know it.
OMW

 

[Rick]

Here is a wonderful thread on that explains Sheep, Sheepdogs and Wolves

This I think these paragraphs say a lot:

"The sheep generally do not like the sheepdog. He looks a lot like the wolf. He has fangs and the capacity for violence. The difference, though, is that the sheepdog must not, can not and will not ever harm the sheep. Any sheep dog who intentionally harms the lowliest little lamb will be punished and removed. The world cannot work any other way, at least not in a representative democracy or a republic such as ours.

Still, the sheepdog disturbs the sheep. He is a constant reminder that there are wolves in the land. They would prefer that he didn't tell them where to go, or give them traffic tickets, or stand at the ready in our airports in camouflage fatigues holding an M-16. The sheep would much rather have the sheepdog cash in his fangs, spray paint himself white, and go, "Baa." Until the wolf shows up. Then the entire flock tries desperately to hide behind one lonely sheepdog."

I found I am absolutely a sheepdog and have been that way all my life. Most of the folks I served in the army were also sheepdogs. when I worked as a bouncer in Bars, we were all sheepdogs. Most folks who learn First aid and run towards accidents are sheepdogs - They are not always cops.

I have concealed carry permits for MA, NY and PA. I may or may not always be carrying, but I am always a sheepdog.

 

[Clown]

In agreement with Mcrat I would have to say that unless your prepared to kill people (or animals), then there is no point in carrying a firearm. Nothing more useless than a gun when you won't use it.
Now once you do "defend yourself" don't forget, you will probably only have a few minutes/seconds to think about it, but that jury will have all the time it wants to make up their minds on whether you were right or wrong. Just to add, I'm not against firearms, I think target practice is fun and it is your constitutional right to carry, I just hope people are responsible.

 

[sli74]

Assuming I pull the gun, who is more likely to hesitate in a gunfight - a computer nerd with minimal handgun training...or a certified psychotic who already had his gun out...

I almost peed myself . . . even if this story is fabricated it was worth it. Thank you for the laughs.

sli74

 

[Barry Sr]

Guns are too heavy for me... they go in the dog's packs!

You're funny. that's where I hide the beers.

 

[McRat]

Nope, sadly it is absolutely true, though much funnier in retrospect.

For all the problems with that one hike, I've gotten more mileage out of telling the story than any other hike.

I don't have witnesses of the incident, but there are several folks that had to deal with me slowing them down, and the fumes downwind.

I handled things pretty well while they were crazy, but as soon as I got up to the trailhead and was 'safe'... My knees started shaking so bad I had to sit down another 10 minutes to get my head together.

The original trip report is sadly gone, but I have a copy somewhere if you're really interested. It's a doozy. I later took a stick in the eye, and drove one-eyed from Waumbek to Melrose, MA.

But I bagged it for a winter peak.

BobandGeri snapped my favorite summit pic - http://www.rbhayes.net/latest/Waumbek/11.jpg The semi-drunken smug satisfaction of finally arriving at my 4th peak... after getting trapped in the snow, held at gunpoint and corneal abrasions. If I die by some misfortune in the mountains - THAT'S the picture I want on my casket.

It's me.

A fool.

 

[Woody]

Guns....too much weight. The beer....I put that in your pack!!!

 

[cbcbd]

cbcbd assumes that gun owners are paranoid. Shall we label gun opponents as naive? That's nonsense.

My tongue-in-cheek comment was about my friend who was going out in the woods for the first time, was out of shape, and had a gun in his posession (this is a 250+lb guy, he was obviously overly paranoid about the dangers he'd encounter in Northwestern CT woods) while completely mentally debilitated from heat exhaustion. I used the term "paranoia" lightly and loosely here, but the situation was still a dangerous one, brought on from his inexperience and some level of fear of the unknown.

I have nothing against guns, but outside of making one feel safer, I have yet to see considerable evidence that a gun is an objectively necessary piece of protection in most US hiking areas.
If someone asked me if they should bring a gun along to a hike I'd probably tell them that it's not necessary but if it really made them feel safer and would allow them to come out then why not.

By the way, when I started getting out in the woods I used to carry this knife with me:
http://www.knivesplus.com/media/UC-RB2.jpg
...then I realized that it was overkill and started leaving it at home.

Now, if you want to feel safe doing an outdoor sport, take up ice climbing - no one messes with a guy/girl with ice tools in their hands and spikes on their feet

 

[NH_Mtn_Hiker]

A concerned friend and competition shooter advised that I carry and I seriously considered it.

-----------------------------

Last March, I had an instance before a hike where I idiotically mistook a snowmobile trail for a parking lot trail and as soon as I went off the hardpack, I sunk and wound up balancing on my skid plates... four tires spinning in place. A man in a snowmobile came by (This was 11:30 or so at night, for a 1:00am start) and offered to come back with his truck. He towed me back to the road and offered to let me come back to his shop to warm up. I figured I'd slip the guy some cash for helping me, particularly when I saw his place and realized how little he must have.

As soon as we arrived at his garage, the door shut behind me. Within one minute he told me he was off his anti-psychotic meds. By the third minute he was wrapped in a passionate argument against government and computers, and before long he's offering me 'a genny'. After politely listening and quickly finishing the beer, I said I have to be going.

Things went wrong here. I found myself looking down the stainless-steel barrel of a Ruger Python .357, "YOU'RE A COP, AREN'T YA?!?!"

For the next hour I did everything to keep this guy in his 'calm zone'. Now and then the gun would point my way, and that 3/8" hole looked like the grand canyon each time. He kept handing me another Genny, and sharing unusual viewpoints, interspersed with threatening questions like the first.

I kept drinking them - one because it was demanded, two because it might keep me from running screaming into the night, and lastly - because if state police ever find a six pack of Genessee beer in my system, my friends would know it was under duress.

Suddenly I mention that I think I saw my friends drive by and that we were off to hike Waumbek before spring officially starts. He laughs and says, "You and your friends sound CRAZY, man."

The guy starts to open the garage door, I say thanks and start walking toward the door. Just when it is halfway up, he stops the door and yells, "HEY!"

I'm not sure if I should take my chances and slide under the door and bolt for the car, or see what's up. I slowly turn to face him expecting to see that gun, and then nothing but a bright light that I'm not afraid to enter.

He finishes, "Hey you wanna exchange numbers in case you're back in the area?"

-----------------


In hindsight it IS kind of funny, but I decided I needed to reassess my handgun policy.

I can tell you with 100% certainty, that if I had a gun on my person, I was scared enough to use it.

Assuming I pull the gun, who is more likely to hesitate in a gunfight - a computer nerd with minimal handgun training...or a certified psychotic who already had his gun out... who suspected I was sent my the government to spy on him?

I support the right to self-defense in general. In this case, there was a good chance someone would get shot. Assuming that I wasn't the victim - I may have killed a man who today might be back on his meds, living a better life, and perhaps even willing to help another hiker in need.

He towed my car, got me drunk, scared me $#!+less, but I'm alive to hike, and he's alive to snowmobile.

This is why I've decided not to carry on the trail.

Hey McRat,
It was nice meeting you man...We gotta get together and party again sometime.

 

[McRat]

Hey McRat,
It was nice meeting you man...We gotta get together and party again sometime.

As long as you're back on your meds and play nice. Except maybe this time I'll pick up the beer.

 

[Mr. X]

For one thing, its alot of extra weight!

 

[funkyfreddy]

Here is a wonderful thread on that explains Sheep, Sheepdogs and Wolves

An interesting essay but its assumptions are pretty simplistic IMHO.

1. It's very tempting and easy to divide human beings into 3 categories, but I think in reality most of us fall through the cracks...... given a change in circumstance both sheep and sheepdogs can become wolves.....

2. I'm not sure how I would categorize myself - a coyote perhaps? I'm certainly not a wolf but I lack the patience to herd sheep I do think most humans have a capacity for violence though..... it may be latent or untrained but I would say the majority of us are probably "3 meals away from a revolution".

3. the labels and implications of "sheep", "sheepdogs", etc. The implication of course being that the sheepdog is superior to the sheep...... the problem with this analogy is that generally when we speak of someone as being a sheep we think of them as being someone who doesn't think for themselves and blindly follows the dictates of others.... and I would say that the ability to think and act independently has nothing to do whatsoever with whether or not one posesses a firearm.....

 

[jade]

Adrenalin, fear, passion, heat of the moment, mistaken identity, accidents...these are all natural occurences that last mere moments but killing someone for any of these reasons and your life (and many other's) is changed forever....
I won't comment here on the NRA....personally I have not and will not carry an insturment whose sole purpose is to kill or maim....

...Jade

 

[David Metsky]

<mod hat>
This is not targetting any particular poster, but things are begining to heat up in this thread. Please refrain from posting your views on guns or gun control.

The question on the floor is do you carry a gun, hike with people who carry guns, etc. It is NOT whether carrying a gun is a good or bad idea.
</mod hat>

-dave-

 

[dr_wu002]

No

<mod hat>
This is not targetting any particular poster, but things are begining to heat up in this thread. Please refrain from posting your views on guns or gun control.

The question on the floor is do you carry a gun, hike with people who carry guns, etc. It is NOT whether carrying a gun is a good or bad idea.
</mod hat>

-dave-

I've never come across someone who has told me, "I'm carrying a gun." Nor do any of the people I hike with, as far as I know, carry a gun. Most of the people I'm friends with have either said they felt safe enough while hiking or that they feel a gun really wouldn't do them any good in the case of an attack. And finally, I myself do not carry a gun... Jess won't let me have one!! She says that, "shooting the light out when you don't feel like getting up to turn off the switch isn't a good enough reason to get a gun..." Oh well... gunless he remains...

-Dr. Wu

 

[adirobdack46r]

Thank you Dave, you reconfirmed my original interst of this thread, and also the fears I had in starting it.

 

[lumberzac]

No, I don’t carry a gun with me into the back county, except when I go hunting. I did camp with someone once that brought a handgun and it was a non-issue.

 

[Kevin Rooney]

Have never carried a gun while hiking and can think of no reason to begin. To the best of my knowledge, have never hiked with anyone who did, either. And, who never knowingly hike with anyone who was carrying a gun, visible or not.

To qualify the above somewhat: if I were ever hiking in an area where there were LOTS of large bears (griz, Kodiak, polar, etc - black bears don't count) I might reconsider and pack a large caliber rifle, like my .270.