Have any of you ever experienced virgin forest in the Adks or in the Northeast?

[steppinwolf]

If so, where was it and what was it like seeing it?

I'm not talking about old-growth forest but genuine virgin forest that was never logged, not even once. I remember reading an article once that virgin forest comprised only a tiny fraction of a percentage of all forest land in the Adirondacks, and I think some of that was wiped out during the microburst storm that devastated parts of the Five Ponds Wilderness area in the 90's.

Sadly, I understand that there's very little of it left out there to be found, although people are still searching for undiscovered stands of it I guess.

Huge trees and ancient forests are something I'd love to see in person someday. Have any of you ever seen any "virgin" forest? If not, what's your favorite "old-growth" forest you've hiked through? The trail to Ampersand Mt has some nice old-growth trees in the beginning of it. I'd really love to see some of the never-been-touched forest, though, if I knew where to find it.

 

[Gris]

Yeah, notwithstanding loggers' efforts in West Virginia there are stills some areas of virgin forest. One I have visited is the Gaudineer Knob scenic area. It's located in one of my favorite areas - just north of Durbin, West Virginia on Route 250. Rumor has it that prior to the Civil War a land company bought about 70,000 acres on the slopes of Shavers Mountain fronting seven miles along the eastern side of the mountain. The company's survey crew forgot that a compass needle points to magnetic, not true, north. (The angle of declination in this area is about four degrees, a huge error over seven miles!) A more experienced surveyor discovered the error, but said nothing about it. When the sale was concluded the experienced surveyor brought up the error and under the "doctrine of vacancy" claimed the wedge of land left by a corrected survey. His title was established, and he and his clan found themselves owners of this seven-mile strip of forest, about 900 acres. While timber above and below the wedge was cut, this narrow holding was never logged. A parcel, the 130-acre Gaudineer Knob Scenic Area tract, was eventually purchased at the insistence of former Monongahela National Forest Supervisor Arthur Wood, who believed that future generations should know what a virgin Appalachian spruce stand was like. It is magnificent, way cool!

 

[AntlerPeak]

Yes I believe so. Back in the 80's the M.A.T.C. did a relocation of the AT, ( not unusual ), the 80's were a very active time for trail relo's in Maine. They turned the trail to climb over Old Blue Mt and in doing so found a virgin slope of tall pines. The area was protected at once by the state. It so happened that I reached that section the year it opened and found it magnificent. In fact Old Blue is a great hill and prior to the AT I am told not often climbed.

 

[Rick]

Pennsylvania - Hammersley Wild Area, About 6 miles North of Cross Forks on the Susquhannock Trail (83 mile loop trail in North Central PA).
I was only there once and we wandered around for about an hour with all the huge old hemlocks, before we had to get back down the spur trail to get to camp at "the pool" at Hammersley.
I'd love to get back there sometime. The area was, IIRC, a place of 3 boundaries intersecting and back them there were triple damages of you logged on land that wasn't your own, so the stand wasn't touched.

If any of the PA folks know of something different on the reason for the Hammersly Wild Area, please let me know. I am going on about 12 years of memory here
Cheers

 

[Jay H]

Despite the intense logging for the tanning industry, etc. in the catskills, I believe the forest between Slide and Cornell is virgin. One of the experts I think will chime in, but the legal campsites in there are my favorite campsites in the catskills.

Jay

 

[Mark Schaefer]

Yes, I see virgin forests all the time in the Catskills, including today on Hunter Mt (upper section of Becker Hollow), two days ago on Sugarloaf and Twin Mts, and on dozens and dozens of other Catskill summits.

From Michael Kudish's book The Catskill Forest: A History, Chapter 20 First Growth Forest.

There are at least 95 square miles, about 60,000 acres of first growth forest in the Catskills today. Many people are surprised to learn that there is this much, yet I am finding a little more each year! In 1972 my first estimate was 70.5 square miles but, since then the number has grown to 95. ...
First growth forests are defined as those which have never been logged, barked, burned by human activities, or had any trees removed for commercial reasons; these forests have never been cleared for agricultural crops, pasture, charcoal, bluestone or gravel. First growth forests can have hiking trails and can be used for recreation such as hunting, fishing, camping, and for educational and research purposes.

His book contains a large fold-out map showing the location of the first growth forests in the Catskills. There are many very large tracts, including most of the Burroughs Range which includes the saddle between Cornell and Slide mentioned by Jay. Perhaps my favorite is the long bushwhack ridge that connects Olderbark and Plateau. It is mostly large hardwoods and a very open forest walk until you reach the dense balsam and spruce crown of the Plateau ridge.

As many of the first growth areas are summits, the trees are often stunted and not tall. But some of the upper slopes and lower ridges have some very large trees.

There is much more in the Adirondacks
The Catskill Park is only 6% first growth forest. The Adirondack Park (a much larger area) is today 9.6% undisturbed forest (first growth, unburned, and not disturbed by storms) according to the The Adirondack Atlas, A Geographic Portrait of the Adirondack Park by Jerry Jenkins and Andy Keal, page 111.

 

[hikethe115]

I remember several years ago paddling on the Oswagatchie River in the Western Adirondacks where there there was a virgin stand of trees. I can't remember exactly where. You had to walk back in to see it though.

 

[steppinwolf]

Thanks, everyone, for your accounts of the virgin forest or first growth as you call it. They are all totally interesting, and I hope to hear more. I was especially surprised but happy to hear that there's so much of it in the Catskills left.

Maybe one of us will someday discover a secret stand of it somewhere else when we're off trail exploring. Ya never know.

 

[BrentD22]

Sandwich Range...

I know there is some kind of research area in a bowl in the Sandwich Range area. Half of it was logged and half is virgin forest. I can't remember of the name of it, but I'm sure someone else will know what I'm talking about.

 

[RGF1]

I know there is some kind of research area in a bowl in the Sandwich Range area. Half of it was logged and half is virgin forest. I can't remember of the name of it, but I'm sure someone else will know what I'm talking about.

Brent I think the area is in fact called the Bowl and is on Whiteface and Passaconaway. If it is the same area some of the old growth is hard wood rare in New England . There is also a small old growth Oak forest on the upper 100- 200 ft of Wahchusset . You can find some in Castle Ravine approxamaitly fromt where the Link and Isreal Ridge trail meeet. in to the ravine. . the Forest around nancy Ponds is also Old growth Actuall old gtowth is better desrcbied as Climax forest. compared to virging forest wich just means that it ihas not been timbered by humans.
I have heard conflicting thoughts on the Great Gulf .
Though the area from about the Six Husbands trial Wammsutta Trail JCT looks like it might be old growth.
I also think there is some on Greylock hard to believe but it could well be .

 

[mudhook51]

i think theres a stand of white pine in meacham st park , above paul smiths on rt 30. also black spruce in the moose river area. plus lots in the cats as you heard.

 

[forestgnome]

Great thread!

I've explored The Bowl and the Nancy Pond area and I love it in there. These were the only un-logged places I've known about. Now I want to explore around Isreal Ridge, which is already a favorite ridge.

 

[hardrain]

Cathedral Pines

There is a small stand of virgin timber located just off Rt. 28, south of Raquette Lake. The DEC sign post is on the right side of the road just past the 8th Lake Campground entrance. These trees are HUGE & beautiful.

 

[--M.]

I know it's corny, but there is a now-well-known bit on Wachusett Mountain in northern Worcester county (Massachusetts). I don't know if it's "virgin" or just "old growth," but if I remember the story correctly, it was never logged at all, so draw your own conclusions, or those who know better can clarify.

I had never seen any such before, and was eager to see it. Other than the impressively large birches, it struck me as being thick and tangled, needing the organizing hand of all-benificent man! Perhaps we could commission a nice English garden.

Having seen it, I enjoyed seeing the HUGE birches on the Osgood trail (Mt. Madison, NH) and wondering if there had ever been clearing there.

Nice topic!

--M.

 

[Jim lombard]

I've never walked back in there but I noticed off the Livermore trail on the way to the Tripyramids there's a path called Big Pines. That's supposedly a virgin forest. In Pawtuckaway state park around Round pond there are some huge hemlock, pine and beech trees.

 

[RGF1]

Great thread!

I've explored The Bowl and the Nancy Pond area and I love it in there. These were the only un-logged places I've known about. Now I want to explore around Isreal Ridge, which is already a favorite ridge.

FN you will realy like it alot of the Spruce have a lot of moss haning on them . OIf course you will find the usualy small plnats on the floor . The area is "different " than the other areas. Partly due to m a bit more perciptiation the minerals in the soil and it's North Westen aspcet. You will definatly need your tripod. My best photos taken in there were on overcast rainy days.


Some one asked about the Old growth forest on Wachussett. It has not been timebered I think in part becasue the small oak it is barley 15 - 20 ft tall . is of littel value and the state bought the land before it could be cut for soem other reason.
One thing you can probably see in many of thease forests is that there is not much of a Understory ( the smaller trees that are not as tall as the more mature trees and are taller than the floor.
If a area has storm dammage of some sort you can see new and different types of plants taking over.
Of course elevation and location and soil type determine just what will and will not grow in them.

The area M mentions on Madsion has been logged birch are a fast growing tree they are probably about 75 -100 years old they do not live much longer than 150 years . usualy .
If people are really intersted in this Try looking on line for some books on topics such as Arborculture, Sivliculture , Forestry and Use he Key words forest cuccesion and old growth.

 

[Puck]

I just got a book on Old Growth forests in the northeast. Not to be confused with virgin forest. They mentioned Jockey Hollow in northern NJ near Morristown. The area had some cutting for fire wood during the American winter encampment there during the revolution.

This is a good thread...while on the subject where could one find King's Pines?

 

[Peakbagr]

The top of Plateau Mt in the Catskills is virgin Hemlock forest. You can usally locate potential areas by looking for sections of mountains that are generally a long way from roads, and/or have steep, rocky sections.

The terrain rescued many areas like this. The loggers could get in if the terrain was hospitable. When it got steep and boulder-strewn, it was difficult for wagons, horses, roads or in some cases, railroads to be pushed. This saved the trees in many cases.

You'll sometimes locate stands of huge trees where the trail or bushwack winds thru erratics, or other large rocks and ledges. A good place to look is on topo maps where the contour lines are stacked-up tight against one another. Over long periods of time, cliffs exfoliate their rocks, making the terrain down below loaded with rocks and tought to negotiate. The big, old trees find those areas comfortable, so long as their located not too close to the rockfall.

 

[DougPaul]

I've never walked back in there but I noticed off the Livermore trail on the way to the Tripyramids there's a path called Big Pines. That's supposedly a virgin forest.

Big Pines is a small group (~5 IIRC) of gigantic trees. Well worth the sidetrip.

Doug

 

[RGF1]

I just got a book on Old Growth forests in the northeast. Not to be confused with virgin forest. They mentioned Jockey Hollow in northern NJ near Morristown. The area had some cutting for fire wood during the American winter encampment there during the revolution.

This is a good thread...while on the subject where could one find King's Pines?

Puck I am not sure but I think Kings Pines refers to tall straight white pines that did not have and large branches over 4 inches in diameter and the branch growth is near symetrical as most confieres are . Usually over 100 ft that were used to make masts for ships .

They were found all over New England and were the predominate tree at the time period you mention .