Have any of you ever experienced virgin forest in the Adks or in the Northeast?

[Puck]

Puck I am not sure but I think Kings Pines refers to tall straight white pines that did not have and large branches over 4 inches in diameter and the branch growth is near symetrical as most confieres are . Usually over 100 ft that were used to make masts for ships .

They were found all over New England and were the predominate tree at the time period you mention .

The King's Pine refer to trees that match your description but were blazed by an agent of the crown. These trees were meant for ship's masts in the Royal Navy. If somebody illegaly cut one down they could be hanged. The lore of the land says there are a few around.

 

[snowshoe]

There are a few spots in NJ where one can see old growth. One of the best examples is Helyar woods. It is 43 acres of old growth oak and Hickory forest. I also beleive another spots is Hutcheson memorial forest that contains old growth. Both areas are owned by Rutgers University. There is also some old growth Hemlock in Wawayanda SP by Laural Pond. Although this I believe is starting to get damaged from the wooley Adelga. I am sure you can probably find some small areas in some of the steeper ravines as well.

 

[RGF1]

The King's Pine refer to trees that match your description but were blazed by an agent of the crown. These trees were meant for ship's masts in the Royal Navy. If somebody illegaly cut one down they could be hanged. The lore of the land says there are a few around.

It is very possible as White Pine can live to well over 300 + years . I Dropped some 150 ft + white pines . One was huge It was in a yard and dangerous to the houses and me when dropping it . I was sad in a way . But had it come down in a storm it really would have done damge and possibly even killed some one.

 

[AMF]

The state of NJ (or one of a jumble of land acquisition groups active there) just acquired a sizable chunk of swamp land in the southern part of the state, down near the Delaware bayshore, that has been known for some years as an eagle habitat. There are reportedly a number of trees, mostly black gum, that have been determined to be 300+ years old. I think these would probably qualify as virgin forest!

 

[vegematic]

It is very possible as White Pine can live to well over 300 + years . I Dropped some 150 ft + white pines . One was huge It was in a yard and dangerous to the houses and me when dropping it . I was sad in a way . But had it come down in a storm it really would have done damge and possibly even killed some one.

My understanding is that even if some of the marked pines still lived that the blaze would be long gone, grown over by bark. There could be some sign of previous injury but nothing you could identify as the King's Arrow.
-vegematic

 

[vegematic]

...You can find some in Castle Ravine approxamaitly fromt where the Link and Isreal Ridge trail meeet. in to the ravine. .

I've been to this area. Really special. I didn't realise it was virgin or old growth at the time but it was so unusual and beautiful that I did a little looking into it after I got home.
-veg

 

[Mark Schaefer]

PB, one minor correction your good post.

The top of Plateau Mt in the Catskills is virgin Hemlock forest.

Plateau is mostly virgin red spruce and balsam fir. There might be a hemlock or two up there, but in general hemlocks have difficulty growing above 3000' in the Catskills (or above 2500' in the Adks, Greens, and Whites). The few that do grow above that in the Catskills tend to be in moist, shady notches.

There are 16 first growth hemlock stands in the Catskills listed in Michael Kudish's book The Catskill Forest: A History, page 62. The highest two may be familiar to Catskill 3500 members: at 3200' in Pigeon Notch between Doubletop and Graham, and at 3120' in the col between Eagle and Big Indian. Another is at 2710' in Ox Hollow on Rusk.

A very general rule of thumb in estimating the age of a hemlock is that they grow 1 foot in diameter in 1 century. A hemlock less than 14 inches in diameter was generally spared from the 19th century tanning industry because it did not have enough marketable bark. These are the 2' diameter giants that can still be found today on the lower slopes. The virgin hemlock stands are all above 2400' in the Catskills with the exception of two found in the Platte and Kaaterskill Cloves. In the Kaaterskill the very small stand is at 1700' along the trail between Bastion and Kaaterskill Falls. One 300 year old hemlock is in that stand.

 

[forestgnome]

Big Pines is a small group (~5 IIRC) of gigantic trees. Well worth the sidetrip.

Doug

DougPaul, where is that stand of pines? I'd love to see/photograph it. Thanks

Edit: I just noticed Jim Lombard's post; looks like there's a trail named "Big Pines" of Livermore Trail. Is it a spur trail that goes right through the heart of the stand. Sounds like a nice adventure.

 

[snowshoe]

Hemlocks are intresting in that they can stay very small for a very long time. What makes them grow taller is sunlight. You can have a 6 inch hemlock and be that size for 50 years. Once the sunlight is able to poke through they take off.
There is one more virgin forest in NJ. It is said that The Cedar Swamp in High Point was never logged. It was once a lake that filled in. I also found out that the summit of High Point NJ 1803 ft has some alpine plants. NJ has a little of everything too.

 

[DougPaul]

Edit: I just noticed Jim Lombard's post; looks like there's a trail named "Big Pines" of Livermore Trail. Is it a spur trail that goes right through the heart of the stand. Sounds like a nice adventure.

Yep, something like .3 mi off Livermore Rd. The exact distances are probably in the guidebook. The trees are 4 or 5 ft in diameter. Have no idea why they were spared.

A pleasant little walk to something that you don't see very often in the Whites.

Doug

 

[BrentD22]

Interesting..

The area on Passaconway and Whiteface has proven that logged or harvested forest will take about 100+ years to grow back to identical trees. The only exception they found was the size of the sugar maples was not as big on the cut side of the bowl. So just think 100+ years from now any area logged will finally be back to it's orginal form.

I want to start wiping my butt with something other than paper... What a waste 100 years!

 

[Rivet]

Check out this web site...

http://www.championtrees.org/oldgrowth/index.htm