Help... bear canister too big

[TCD]

Not everyone does everything the same way. Some people like to pack light. On any trip, I will take the smallest pack I can. I don't have a canister yet (I almost never camp at popular areas in the Eastern High Peaks). I am not looking forward to having that keg bouncing around on my back while I try to run the trail. I may choose not to camp in the areas where it's required.

 

[Tramper Al]

Some people like to pack light. On any trip, I will take the smallest pack I can.

Obviously. I think, though, that when I get away with a small overnight pack, then that works. When I read "day pack", I am thinking day hike. When you need to carry a bear cannister for overnight use, you will still take the smallest pack you can, it's just that it may be bigger. Am I missing some key logical step?

 

[skidoc22]

Velcro or a web strap

I believe the solution to the slipping out dilemma is velcro or a web strap. You can tape velcro pieces on and attach the other side to the straps or top of the pack surrounding the cannister or use duct tape to secure a velcro or web strap along the long axis of the cannister and then after it is lashed just cinch around the lash straps that hold the cannister to the pack. They don't need to bear (sorry) weight only to keep it from moving side to side.

Your creativity will serve another purpose as well. You can identify your cannister in the pile the bears made with them at Colden or Marcy Dam as they were trying to open them (or maybe even floating around the lake when they get frustrated). The dayglo orange duct tape will also make it easier to spot if it gets dragged off a ways into the woods.

 

[masshysteria]

Well Jay, it pains me to see your report. If you try the sack method, post here and let us know how it worked. I'm wondering if I epoxied some nylon loops on the outside of the canister, where the pack straps would go? I'm not sure if the epoxy would hold onto the plastic, perhaps if I scuffed it up a little. I'll do some experimenting also.

 

[WalksWithBlackflies]

Masshysteria, expoxied loops = bear handles. Not a good idea.

 

[WalksWithBlackflies]

Tramper Al -

I have a 4-hour drive (one way) to the Adks, which puts a damper on available dayhikes. I like to get to the trailhead in the evening, hike into a camping spot, and begin my hike early the next morning.

Why would we expect (or need) a bear vault to fit in a day pack? They are for overnight food storage, yes?

Because I can fit a sleeping bag, bivy sack, change of clothes, water filter, food, etc. in my daypack (and yes, sometimes a stove). The reason I bought the bivy sack is so I could "go lite" and not have to lug a full pack around for single-day hikes (dayhikes) and bushwhacks. Why would I expect (or need) to carry a canister that holds 4-7 days of food for a one night/one day hike?

 

[Chip]

I believe the solution to the slipping out dilemma is velcro or a web strap. You can tape velcro pieces on and attach the other side to the straps or top of the pack surrounding the cannister or use duct tape to secure a velcro or web strap along the long axis of the cannister and then after it is lashed just cinch around the lash straps that hold the cannister to the pack. They don't need to bear (sorry) weight only to keep it from moving side to side.

Your creativity will serve another purpose as well. You can identify your cannister in the pile the bears made with them at Colden or Marcy Dam as they were trying to open them (or maybe even floating around the lake when they get frustrated). The dayglo orange duct tape will also make it easier to spot if it gets dragged off a ways into the woods.

Mine fits in my pack sideways over my tent (where all my cooking gear and food was, anyway). But it's a large pack and I'm not "ultra-light". I think skidoc's suggestion about the velcro is a good one. There is velcro available that has the sticky back, or you could epoxy the velcro to the canister and sew it to your straps.

I like mine. They are a good idea regardless of regulations and they do make great seats in camp.

 

[DougPaul]

Agree with rico:
The advice that I have seen advises against any attachments to the outside of the cannister. Don't want anything that the bear can grab onto,

Some suggesitons:

I have read that 1in wide straps hold better than narrower straps. Rubber coated straps might stick well. (Or perhaps some non-nylon material?)

Another approach might be a pair of tight straps around just the cannister. Thread another pair of straps under the first set to attach to the pack.

I've seen rectangular cross-section bungee cords. (Circular cross-section might roll off.)

Another trick might be bungee cords to hold the straps in place.

Doug

 

[Jay H]

So far, I've got either to glue velcro to the outside, rubber straps than plain nylon.

Has anybody tried the compression sack idea though? Seems like it would be simple, but more expensive than say the velcro idea, however, no chance of the glue coming unglued or anything..

Might go to campmor to try some on for size....

Jay

 

[Tramper Al]

Tramper Al -

I have a 4-hour drive (one way) to the Adks, which puts a damper on available dayhikes. I like to get to the trailhead in the evening, hike into a camping spot, and begin my hike early the next morning.

Because I can fit a sleeping bag, bivy sack, change of clothes, water filter, food, etc. in my daypack (and yes, sometimes a stove). The reason I bought the bivy sack is so I could "go lite" and not have to lug a full pack around for single-day hikes (dayhikes) and bushwhacks. Why would I expect (or need) to carry a canister that holds 4-7 days of food for a one night/one day hike?

I understand now, thanks, it was the "day pack" that threw me. I'm sure you know about the "4 day" bearvault, but I guess the diameters need to stay fairly big, so those pesky bears can't get their teeth into it.

You are probably not looking for this sort of suggestion, but . . . If I were just hiking in a short ways to camp before a big day hike, I probably wouldn't worry about taking a larger pack and bear canister that far, as I'd likely stash both while I did my day hike with a light day pack. See, I'd be loathe to needlessly carry sleeping bag, bivy, pad, stove, etc. on a long day hike, in summer anyway. I am assuming you would return past your gear stash to your car for the 4 hour drive home?

 

[tonycc]

So far, I've got either to glue velcro to the outside, rubber straps than plain nylon.

Has anybody tried the compression sack idea though? Seems like it would be simple, but more expensive than say the velcro idea, however, no chance of the glue coming unglued or anything..

The compression sack method should work, both the garcia and the bear keg have optional carry sacks for attaching the cannister to your pack. Just remember to remove the cannister from the sack when you stash it.

I have to ask though, did you try putting the cannister in your pack? You can throw a lot of extra items in there besides food so that you don't lose much volume.

Tony

 

[NumNum]

its still ONLYa proposal isnt it?

http://www.dec.state.ny.us/website/dfwmr/propregs/part190sect13text.html

 

[Jay H]

I have to ask though, did you try putting the cannister in your pack? You can throw a lot of extra items in there besides food so that you don't lose much volume.

I could probably fit the garcia or the BV250 in the pack, if the diameter is smaller... The BV300 is 8.7" wide according to the box and 12.4" long and is quite large. Wouldn't really fit in my Gregory Reality.

Jay

 

[Chip]

It's just shorter, the 8.7" diameter is the same, it's a bear mouth/canister ratio thing, I guess.

 

[ALGonquin Bob]

regulation

Yes, this is still a proposal. From a May 18, 2005 press release on the DEC web site:

"More information on bear resistant canisters, the High Peaks Bear Study and ways to avoid problems with black bears in the back country may be found on the DEC's web site.

The proposed regulations are published in today's issue of the State Register and the public may provide comments on these changes during the formal 45-day comment period that begins with publication in the Register and ends on July 5, 2005.

To send written comments on the proposals, go to www.dec.state.ny.us and select Proposed Environmental Regulations from the left column, or mail to: Bear Resistant Canister Regulation, NYSDEC, Bureau of Wildlife, Route 86, P.O. Box 296, Ray Brook, NY 12977-0296."

 

[Orphic Seth]

Well! I just got my BV Solo 250 today, and got all my stuff together. I have a Gregory Gravity pack, from about 4 years ago or so, it's right around 3200 cubic inches if I remember correctly... I think the pack is the same as the Reality except it doesn't have the pouches on the back panel to add to the cubic inch total.

Waiting for this thing to come in, I was all sorts of worried. I have a very orderly-yet complicated way of packing my pack, and I thought this was going to screw it all up. Wrong. I was able to get my pot, stove (inside pot), gas canister, spoon all in, with room leftover for enough food/garbage for a 2 or 3 day outing, which is usually what I do anyway. My packing has been simplified, I don't have to worry about bears, squirrels, mice, etc.

It slipped right into the pack, sure it take up some space, but I can work around it pretty well, so I'm psyched. And WHOA! I have something to sit on now!

 

[Pete_Hickey]

Hey Rico. Don't complain. My son (with us on Dix) showed me his bear canister last weekend. Here's a picture of it:

http://newmud.comm.uottawa.ca/~pete/tmp/bearcan.jpg

Yep, a 55 gallon steel drum. The ADK PRo trail crew is going to use that for their food wen working in the high peaks. It gets lashed onto a pack frame.

So how big were you saying yours is?

 

[WalksWithBlackflies]

Hey Pete - I'd really have to squeeze to get that drum in my pack! Please make sure JR carries a camera to capture the faces of everyone he passes

BTW, I'm mailing the CD of Dix photos today.

 

[cmr_hiker]

return the thing

aight, if you want to to save weight and add comfort.

return the bear canister. use the money to buy a hammock. sell bivy sack on ebay. use hammock as the most comfortable place to sleep (yes you may end up rather sleeping in your hammock than in your bed) also use hammock (correctly) as a chair to sit on. buy some nylon cord, tie cord to stuff sack, get a stone on the ground, stick in sack, throw over tree, tie food bag to nylon line, hoist food into air. tie it off to another tree or make a counter balance if you are super crafty. make sure bear bag is high enough and far enough away from trunk. bears are tall and can climb trees. the bear canister weighs far too much. its really a car camping luxury. (im talking east cost backpacking here)

Never Never add any sort of rope/webbing/velcro loops to a bear canister. it will get carried away. you may want to add a ring of brightly colored ducktape, not to make a handle but so you can identify it when/if it is trudged into the woods.

you still need to stow your food away from you camp. common perceptions suggests 100ft away. so dont think you can leave it in your tent. also have the lid face the earth. sucks for a rainstorm to soak your food inside.

bear canisters get a thumbs down!
chris

 

[cmr_hiker]

guys seriously.

do you know how uncomfortable you are gonna feel if you pack your food outside of your packs? your food should be packed middle to high, close to your body.

quoted:
The compression sack method should work, both the garcia and the bear keg have optional carry sacks for attaching the cannister to your pack. Just remember to remove the cannister from the sack when you stash it.

and:

I have read that 1in wide straps hold better than narrower straps. Rubber coated straps might stick well. (Or perhaps some non-nylon material?)

Another approach might be a pair of tight straps around just the cannister. Thread another pair of straps under the first set to attach to the pack.

I've seen rectangular cross-section bungee cords. (Circular cross-section might roll off.)

Another trick might be bungee cords to hold the straps in place.




This is gonna make you look like the hunchback of notre dame! 7 day trip = app 14lbs of food. you need it close to your body so the frame of your pack will transfer the weight to your hips. it will also allow you to stay more upright as opposed to havingto counterbalance such a huge load!