High Altitude Apples

[mudhook51]

On a recent Catskill hike, I saw an apple tree, complete with apples, above 3500'. Does any one know of any other fruit trees, excluding wild cherries, up this high.

 

[woodstrider]

Fruit in what sense of the word? I mean there are many fruits, or drupesor berries or seed producing trees and plants, but alot are unappealling or poisonous to humans- like the berries of poison ivy- bad for us but other animals eat them. But above 3500', Mountain Ash and Hobble Bush are common and there berries are an important source of food for animals, as are the pine seeds found in the many kinds of cones.

If you saw an apple tree, it was probably planted by someone- maybe the area was once someones home. Finding fruit bearing trees and bushes are an occassional "plus" to some hikes and one of the reasons that I like Harriman State Park- that and all the lakes.

 

[Mark Schaefer]

To the best of my knowledge apple trees are not native to the Catskill Mountains. They were first planted by native Americans in orchards along the Esopus in what is now the town of Olive. Apple trees are now common in most of the valleys, and in abandoned farms on some slopes like the one on the German Hollow Trail at about 1700'. John Burroughs describes his childhood experiences growing up in Roxbury in his book Under the Apple-Trees. I agree with Woodstrider that an apple tree at 3500' was probably planted.

There are native wild black cherry trees on the 3600' summit of Bearpen, and on other mountains at comparable elevations. Other than blackberry, raspberry, blueberry, and huckleberry shrubs there is not much that is human edible. There are red elderberry shrubs above 3000' in a number of locations like Big Indian Mt. There is also holly, chokecherry, and chokeberry.

 

[Raymond]

I'm certainly no horticulturist (just ask Susan!), but I thought apple trees weren't even native to North America. I could have sworn I read in a Massachusetts promotional pamphlet that the first apple trees in America were planted on a Boston Harbor island. No? What about Leominster's John "Johnny Appleseed" Chapman?

 

[Mark Schaefer]

Yes, you are correct Raymond. Although some crab apples are native to North America most of the apples we have today were introduced from Europe. My source for the Indian orchards in the Town of Olive is Michael Kudish's book The Catskill Forest: A History, page 47. That reference does not identify the date of the Indian orchards, but it does mention that the natives adapted the apple from European settlers.

North American tribes have a long history of adapting crop plants from other areas, including maize, beans, squash, pumpkins, and tobacco. These are all native to Central or South America, and not North America.

 

[snowshoe]

This is what makes hiking in the Northeast great. Hiking and being able to come across a fruit tree. Especially on a hot summer day.

 

[Puck]

What about Leominster's John "Johnny Appleseed" Chapman?

Chapman would not have left a trace in Eastern NY. He got his seeds from cider mills in C and western PA and started his seedlings in the Ohio river valley. He was not the pot-hat weirdo freak scattering seeds from a burlap haversack that is depicted in our folklore. (although he was a Swedenborgian and did a lot of preaching) He was taking advantage of a law passed for the Ohio territory stating that in order to get a land grant the settler had to plant an orchard. The apples were used for hard cider. Chapman moved in and sold seedlings to settlers fulfilling this requirement.

The tree growing in the Catskills is probably a result of an apple core thrown into the woods. What are the apples like?

 

[Rugger]

I don't know about the Catskills, but in Vermont the mountains were cleared quite high for farming in the 1800's. I don't think it would not have been unusual to have apples planted high.

 

[Waumbek]

I don't know about the Catskills, but in Vermont the mountains were cleared quite high for farming in the 1800's. I don't think it would not have been unusual to have apples planted high.

Could scat have transported the seeds? (Are seeds viable after digestion?) Or birds dropped them? I think Puck's apple core theory makes more sense, though.

 

[Tom Rankin]

The tree growing in the Catskills is probably a result of an apple core thrown into the woods. What are the apples like?

I've run into a few old apple orchards high up in the Catskills, but I can't remember where.

 

[Mr. X]

This post is turning into the begining of Monty Python's The Holy Grail. "A 5 pound bird cannot carry an 8 pound coconut..."

 

[Rob S]

I've run into a few old apple orchards high up in the Catskills, but I can't remember where.

Tuco (Eric) and I saw a few crab-apple trees off the herdpath to Graham last October. Can't remember exactly where, but the trees were on the right side of the path about two-thirds of the way to Graham (coming from Balsam Lake Mountain).

 

[mudhook51]

What I'm asking about are fruit trees not native to the area, such as apples, peaches, and so on. I've seen native fruits and berries(black cherry, mountain ash, blue or huckleberries as they are known locally, and others at higher elevations, but never a healthy, thriving apple at this height. I'm speculating that this one, from its size, grew from a core thrown away by one of the hudson river school of painters after a picnic at this particular overlook. I can't belive it survived and is doing so well. If the bears don't get there first there should be ripe apples in the fall, as these were the same size as the apples on my trees at 1800'. I'm sure it is just a common apple gone wild.(Exactly like the ones on Burroughs front yard just over the hill, maybe he threw it there, but not likely, as he was quite posessive of his apples.)

 

[woodstrider]

Fruits gone wild

I have done a fair amount of bushwhacking all over the catskills (public lands- what I say now does not apply to private lands) and of course I have walked all the trails and I do not remember waking through any higher elevation plantations or orchards of friut trees. I'd like to know where they are, I'll return to visit.
I do remember seeing plantations of certain types of non-native pines that had been planted- the oblivious ones that come to mind are the ones found on Windham High Peak.

And as usual- Mark S.- you certainly are a fountain of information.

Waumbek- some seeds can only germinate after they have passed through the alimentry tract of some animal