Hiker OK After Getting Stuck On Mount Moosilauke

[Kevin Rooney]

A question on the best survival gear to bring. I notice you mention you had a bivy that you used to your advantage. I also bring a bivy with me when I hike but lately I've begun to wonder if I should be bringing a sleeping bag as well or instead of the bivy. My concern is balancing weight with safty and what NH Fish and Game would consider prepared.

This might be a good time to remind people what might be the best survival solution which combines a bivy with a bag. It's the Blizzard Survival Bag which Tim Seaver brought to this board's attention a few years ago. This site has them now for only $30. It weighs but a few ounces.

For more info, check out Blizzard's website. These products seem to be the bag/blanket of choice for SAR units in the UK and elsewhere.

I've been carrying one year-round for at least 2 years now. Hope to never use it.

 

[Chip]

I always carry a 3/4 length closed cell pad in the winter, as well. I don't carry a sleeping bag on day hikes. I do carry/wear capilene, wool socks, hand warmers, softshell, hardshell and down jacket layers and assume I would be warm enough in the bivy on the pad in my layers.

 

[Bill and Sheep]

This might be a good time to remind people what might be the best survival solution which combines a bivy with a bag. It's the Blizzard Survival Bag which Tim Seaver brought to this board's attention a few years ago. This site has them now for only $30. It weighs but a few ounces.

Kevin, thanks for sharing that again. Do you carry this along with some sort of sleeping pad?

I keep going back and forth on how much to carry on winter hikes. I used to always carry a sleeping bag and pad when I hiked solo on weekdays. Now that I'm hiking weekends I tend to go a lot lighter. I'd certainly feel a lot better if I had a bag like this to carry. Something this light makes being safer such a no-brainer!

 

[Waumbek]

I have a BSB, never had to use it, never opened it up to try it, just carry it in winter even on local walks in the woods when there's no cell coverage, which is usual. That, an old blue ensolite pad, and chemical warmers is a very lightweight wait-it-out kit for winter. Has anyone had actual experience getting through a cold night in one of these BSB's?

 

[Kevin Rooney]

Kevin, thanks for sharing that again. Do you carry this along with some sort of sleeping pad?

In warm weather I usually don't carry a pad, figuring I can use my pack to provide some level of insulation. Winter's a different deal - like Chip, I carry a 3/4 pad. I use a Thermarest Zlite. Both the bag and Blizzard are orange.

 

[Ed Poyer]

Condensation and a group bivy

Rick: One review of the Adventure Medical Thermo-lite Bivy described condensation as a real problem. How much of a problem was that for you? Did you emerge with wet clothing?

It looks like the Blizzard Survival Bag would have the same drawback. Has anyone actually used the BSB in the field, for at least a few hours?

For years, I've carried a Zdarsky / Gwynley sack shelter, (basically a big tube tent with a drawstring on each end) which allows several people to get out of the wind and to share body heat, or allows you to aid a patient. It has no insulation, which makes me think it would be more effective for a group than a soloist. We've practiced with it a few times, but have never needed to use it for real (imagine crossed fingers icon here).

Ed

 

[Tim Seaver]

Rick: One review of the Adventure Medical Thermo-lite Bivy described condensation as a real problem. How much of a problem was that for you? Did you emerge with wet clothing?

It looks like the Blizzard Survival Bag would have the same drawback. Has anyone actually used the BSB in the field, for at least a few hours?

I haven't actually tried one out in winter conditions, but I would imagine that moisture buildup could be an issue. Here is where having a set of thin synthetic pants and jacket to complement the BSB as part of your emergency overnight kit would be far superior to any down gear which would quickly become matted and useless, if indeed the inside of the bag was sauna-like.

 

[Waumbek]

I haven't actually tried one out in winter conditions, but I would imagine that moisture buildup could be an issue. Here is where having a set of thin synthetic pants and jacket to complement the BSB as part of your emergency overnight kit would be far superior to any down gear which would quickly become matted and useless, if indeed the inside of the bag was sauna-like.

Yes, might work. Somebody ought to crack one of these BSB's open and field test it, or ask the mfgr for field test results. A forced overnight bivy is not a good time for surprises.

In the field review and testimonial on the BSB website, the user's clothing is already wet and they're being evacuated by others. Nothing about trying to stay dry in it in cold conditions and walking out on your own the next day. I'm beginning to think this is not a good emergency winter bag.

 

[RickB.]

I can't speak for the BSB but have recent, relevant experience with the Thermo-lite. When I crawled into the bivy sack in the snow cave, I wasn't sure what to expect as far as its contribution to my warmth/survival. My first half hour in it was filled with shivering, sometimes violent, and I knew that the next two or three hours would reveal whether or not I could sustain adequate warmth to get through the night. I started isometric exercises, which I had to continue on and off, mostly on, all night and after a couple of hours felt that things had stabilized. Unlike the BSB in the link photos, the Thermo-lite did not cling to me but formed a dead air space around me that was considerably warmer than the outside temperature. The protection of the cave was key in enabling this. I learned that even minor movements would detach the velcro along the opening I had on the inside of the snow cave. This dropped the ambient in the sack in a hurry so I didn't move much. After eight hours or so, condensation became an issue and I poked a small hole in the top of the sack which seemed to help. I had a Gore-tex parka and coated nylon pants on the outside and they were soaked by sunrise but I wasn't. I had no sleeping bag but lots of layers of heavy synthetic clothing.
I had planned to pull the pad from my pack for insulation, putting the pack around my feet but changed my mind as I was setting up. I placed heaters around my toes and wrapped my feet in my heaviest insulating garment, a Polarguard parka. Then I used my pack for under my torso and the pack lid for my head, with boughs under my legs/feet. That worked and I was glad, given how still I had to stay for 15 hours, that I had the comfortable pack and lid under me.
The outside temperature was in the mid-teens at midnight when I stopped checking (TMI). Having been through it, I feel my setup would have gotten me through even another 10-15 degrees colder, but no science behind that.
Hope this helps.

 

[Tim Seaver]

Yes, might work. Somebody ought to crack one of these BSB's open and field test it, or ask the mfgr for field test results. A forced overnight bivy is not a good time for surprises.

I have a feeling a few have been opened here and there:

Blizzard Survival Blankets™ and the new Blizzard Heat™ products are now being issued to all United States Army and Special Forces units as the most effective way to keep casualties alive on the battlefield.

Variants of the product are also widely deployed as personal survival equipment in all new RAF fighter aircraft, by air sea rescue teams and by armed forces from Finland to Australia.

The products are made from Blizzard Survival's unique Reflexcell™ material – a triple layer of metalised polymer foil, which expands to form insulating air pockets as well as reflecting heat. Reflexcell™ is as warm as a 2-3 season sleeping bag, with a fraction of the weight and bulk. It is also totally windproof, waterproof, tough and re-useable.

Arctic tests by the British Royal Marines have shown that Blizzard Survival Bags™ made from Reflexcell™ are up to four times more effective at preventing hypothermia than standard issue bivvy bags.

That doesn't translate into "yes, this bag would keep you toasty/comfy on a forced overnight winter bivy at Edmands Col", but it would probably keep you alive if you had a bit of shelter, a pad or improvised bedding and at least a few layers. And, as Rick B experienced and noted, having a few heat packs for your extremities in these situations is huge.

I must get one of those Olive Drab Military Survival Jackets to satisfy my inner Rambo.

 

[Waumbek]

The condensation problem is discussed elsewhere on the site, as follows:

"Do you get condensation inside Reflexcell™ products?Not normally. This is because the warmth of the material suppresses the formation of condensation, and the perforations in the inner and middle layers allow much of the moisture to move away from the body. However under certain conditions small amounts of moisture can form. No one who has used Reflexcell™ products has felt that these caused any problem, or affected the performance of the material."

 

[Tim Seaver]

Do Tell!

I'm beginning to think this is not a good emergency winter bag.

Quick...call the Marines!

...The innovative Blizzard Survival System kit is making big waves with the military winning a Royal Marines arctic survival bag trial and being issued to US special forces deployed in Iraq and elsewhere.

Blizzard's range of survival bags, blankets and jackets gives incredible insulation by using a technology called Reflexcell. Basically it's an elasticated, lightweight reflective material which also traps layers of insulating air inside triangular channels making it extremely warm.

According to figures from Leeds University, a Reflexcell bag gives warmth figures of 24 Togs/kg which is well over twice the value of goose down, previously thought to have the highest warmth to weight ration among usable insulating materials. It's also barely affected by the presence of moisture, unlike down.

 

[Waumbek]

Quick...call the Marines!

Easy, Tim, Easy. Stand down.

The question that Ed Poyer raised about condensation was a good one, and the BSB comment posted above on condensation control is also good to know.

 

[sardog1]

BSB to the test -- stay tuned

Well, now you've all gone and done it. You've made this an issue of my fellow VFTTers' survival.

So, as one of the early proponents here of the Blizzard Survival Bag, I guess I'm gonna have to open it and try it. Tomorrow night seems as good as any. The forecast low here is 3 degrees Fahrenheit but it will be calm. In other words, potentially sleepless but not life threatening when done in my front yard.

It will be pad, day hike clothing, and the BSB, i.e., what I routinely carry in my pack and wear. See you on the backside on Sunday -- mebbe. (No, I'm not altruistic enough to wait for the heavy rain and wind coming on Sunday night. )

 

[Cath]

we have a winner!

SarDog1 you are the best !!!! Feel free to call if you would like
breakfast crumpets delivered to your front yard Sunday morning

 

[Chip]

My first half hour in it was filled with shivering, sometimes violent, and I knew that the next two or three hours would reveal whether or not I could sustain adequate warmth to get through the night.

You know what I'm interested in, if you can discuss it, is what was in your head just before and after the decision to stop and dig in. I believe many in your situation might make that panic/adrenaline filled decision to keep moving and trying, until it's too late.

How much doubt did you have about deciding to dig just before and after you did ?

 

[RoySwkr]

I have never had to spend a whole night out, but I've stayed out until after midnight when I was too tired to walk continuously and had to take some very long rests.

I used the old AMC Winter School candle-in-a-space-blanket idea and it worked fine except for once when the candle burned a hole in the space blanket while I was asleep, one spot had lots of downed wood and birch bark so I built a fire and used the space blanket behind me as a reflector.

I probably rested for a total of several hours and never considered cold to be an issue, of course I could warm up when I was walking. And I never considered hunkering down for the whole night but only until I could walk again. And I didn't have to worry about finding the trail since the hike was a bushwhack anyway

 

[RickB.]

You know what I'm interested in, if you can discuss it, is what was in your head just before and after the decision to stop and dig in. I believe many in your situation might make that panic/adrenaline filled decision to keep moving and trying, until it's too late.

How much doubt did you have about deciding to dig just before and after you did ?

Giving up my search for the route wasn't easy but after almost two hours and so many passes, the last few in the spruce, I had run out of tricks. The wind was picking up, if anything, and there was nothing to lead me to believe that conditions would change before sunset. I do second guess not returning to the summit and trying again to follow the Carriage Road down but that was against all my training and instincts. I still had an hour plus of daylight but waning energy.
Once the decision was made I didn't question it. I think you're a climber, Chip, so you may know the feeling when you run the rope out on hard stuff to a potential placement, only to find nothing, with another 20' to the next pro. A feeling combining dread with steely calm takes over with the certainty that there's no going back. That became my mindset. Once I found the bivy spot, I worked making the cave and was methodical preparing myself, almost as though, at some level, I had worked out the steps previously. Nevertheless, it was with great relief that I located each critical piece of gear in my pack.
As I mentioned in an earlier post, I lay there for the first couple of hours unsure of what to expect. Once things seemed steady state, I tried to construct a likely rescue timing scenario. Sue realizes the problem, gets authorities notified and so on. My calculation had possible help arriving between 11pm and 1am. I even thought of the crap I would take on this site upon my rescue! This schedule made the expected duration of my bivy, max 10 hours, tolerable. I was blowing my whistle at 15 minute intervals, four groups of three blasts, don't ask me why. I would shiver if I didn't exercise and refused to fall asleep.
After 2am, or so, I began to give up on rescue (ironically, my friends arrived at the summit then) and to concentrate on not just surviving but on getting out on my own. Maybe George Clooney had called Sue and told her he couldn't live without her. Rick who? I was obsessed with fear of decamping in the same conditions that had gotten me into this. The small hole I had poked in the sack to ease the condensation provided a peephole if I oriented it toward the gap between the ice shelf and the windwall. Sometime later, I peered out to see bright points of light above. Oh, yeah! At 7am, I made my move, described earlier.
Collectively, my replies in this thread serve as a trip report so I won't be posting one. Happy to answer any other questions, though.

 

[Chip]

Outstanding ! Congrats again and thanks for sharing.

 

[Chip]

SarDog1 you are the best !!!! Feel free to call if you would like
breakfast crumpets delivered to your front yard Sunday morning

How'd he do ? Anyboby heard from him ?