Hiker pecking order?

[dvbl]

A co-worker is section-hiking parts of the AT. He told me that once when he arrived at a shelter, he was hoping no AT thru-hikers would show up because he didn't want to give up his spot. I asked him if he'd really give up his spot, and he said it depends on what the thru-hikers' attitude was like. I've read about incidents between thru-hikers and so-called weekend warriors. Has anyone ever noticed or experienced a "pecking order" in the hiking world (thru-hikers above 7-day backpackers above weekend backpackers above day-hikers; or summit hikers vs non-summit hikers, etc)? I've seen this type of garbage in many places (ex. academics and military), but thankfully, other than a few snotty comments on this and similar boards from "hard-core" types against "inexperienced yuppies", I haven't seen it in the hiking/backpacking world. Have you or someone you know ever been on the receiving end, or giving end , of this kind of thing?

 

[KMartman]

Does this actually happen? I can't imagine asking someone who arrived before me to give up their shelter spot for ANY reason. Especially not because I thought I "deserved" it more...just because someone is Thru Hiking the AT..doesnt mean they have preference to the shelter spots.first come first served....truthfully if asked..I would likely laugh directly in thier faces and ask if they were "serious"..

never noticed a "hiker hierarchy" personally anyway...all the thru hikers i've ever met were really nice..

M

 

[sapblatt]

Not overly experienced in this area but I had always thought that it was first come, first served. I would never give up my space...I start early when I am camping to ensure that I get a space and I do not feel bad for those who arrive at a popular destination at 7pm on a busy summer weekend. This possiblity reinforces my belief that I would much prefer being in my tent than being in a shelter.

Last year at 13 Falls we arrived around 1pm on a Saturday and got our spots. The caretaker suggested that we may need to share out tent sites if it got busy later. This was pretty funny as I have a small two man tent that had less than six inches around it after it was set up and nothing else would fit there...

 

[SteveHiker]

last August, I gave a thru-hiker a lift from the BSP gate into Millinocket. Nice enough fellow. Then he went on a short rant about day-hikers and section hikers, etc. He didn't carry on for too long, as he quickly realized who was giving him a ride. It was mostly good-natured (I think). I pretty much just blew it off, I figured after six months on the trail, he had probably had a couple of unpleasant experiences with members of each group. After all, I can hike 20 miles in a day and once in a while come across a jerk. Over 2000 miles, the odds just increase.

 

[blacknblue]

I have never actually seen anyone directly ask someone else to give up their spot, claiming some sort of intrinsic derservedness, but I have certainly seen/heard an implicit "I can't believe you lame weekend warriors are not making room for me, mighty hiker" complaints.

I've been on both sides, I think the first-come, first-serve model is the only that makes sense. Naturally, most people will try to accommodate as much as possible, especially folks in a shelter on a rainy night, but the reality is that you need to get in by early- to mid-afternoon on a busy weekend.

 

[David Metsky]

My experience has usually been that thru-hikers don't want to spend the night in the shelters anyway. They are usually content with setting up their tent a ways from the crowd.

I've encountered the entitled sentiment, but it usually goes away once you strike up a conversation.

-dave-

 

[KMartman]

My experience has usually been that thru-hikers don't want to spend the night in the shelters anyway. They are usually content with setting up their tent a ways from the crowd.

I've encountered the entitled sentiment, but it usually goes away once you strike up a conversation.

-dave-

I personally always like to set up my own shelter....whether tent, bivy sac, or tarp...i like my "own space"

M

 

[giggy]

I imagine it happens. I haven't seen it myself. Just like everything, there is elitists that think they are better than others, in life, work, hobbies, and hiking/climbing is no different, etc.. I am always went by the rule - always someone faster, better, tougher, etc..

IMO - nothing to be ashamed about if youwork 5 days a week and are a "weekend warrior", day hiker, etc... I am a firm believer in the first come first serve thing. If you plan accordingly, you should be rewarded and not give anythign up. I don't give a crud if your hiking the edmunds path or the entire AT.

I guess its a personal thing if you want to give it up for someone. If someone copped a 'tude with me and demanded that I give up a spot, becuase they are more hardcore - I would promptly laugh in their face.

 

[cbcbd]

Never had that happen and most thru-hikers I've met have been pretty nice and humble.

The only time I've seen eliticism was a 2X thru-hiker who wouldn't give me the time of day, but was glad to talk to a thru-hiker about if he had seen any "real" hikers that day.

 

[Dugan]

Does this actually happen? I can't imagine asking someone who arrived before me to give up their shelter spot for ANY reason. Especially not because I thought I "deserved" it more...just because someone is Thru Hiking the AT..doesnt mean they have preference to the shelter spots.
M

I had just the opposite happen in the Whites when I was a thru-hiker. A crowded night, heavy down pours. Two of us pulled in for an early day because we didn't want to camp in wet weather and deal with wet gear for days after. The caretaker asked us if we would consider moving out of the shelter, and tenting instead, since we were likely "better prepared" than others wanting to use the shelter. After I refused, citing first-come-first-served, she then asked if we could help with some other rain-related chores, can't recall what. I said sure, if she would waive the then $3 shelter fee. She refused, so I did too. She did not feel the plight of the lesser prepared was dire enough to offer to share space in her caretaker tent with them. It was snug in the shelter, but we all managed to fit.

In my defense, I did share around a couple of pieces of dry clothing with some of the lesser prepared people, as well as use of my stove, and rigging the ground cloth for my tent as part of a weather break. It was also typical of the time to offer free space to thru-hikers in turn for chores.

 

[KMartman]

I had just the opposite happen in the Whites when I was a thru-hiker. A crowded night, heavy down pours. Two of us pulled in for an early day because we didn't want to camp in wet weather and deal with wet gear for days after. The caretaker asked us if we would consider moving out of the shelter, and tenting instead, since we were likely "better prepared" than others wanting to use the shelter. After I refused, citing first-come-first-served, she then asked if we could help with some other rain-related chores, can't recall what. I said sure, if she would waive the then $3 shelter fee. She refused, so I did too. She did not feel the plight of the lesser prepared was dire enough to offer to share space in her caretaker tent with them. It was snug in the shelter, but we all managed to fit.

In my defense, I did share around a couple of pieces of dry clothing with some of the lesser prepared people, as well as use of my stove, and rigging the ground cloth for my tent as part of a weather break. It was also typical of the time to offer free space to thru-hikers in turn for chores.

This is exactly what I don't get...I liked the post UNTIL you mention "in my defense"..why do you feel you need to defend yourself? I was glad to hear you basically told the caretaker to pound salt. You reached the shelter first...no matter how "better prepared" you were its STILL NOT your fault that others might be less prepared..and you should have the use of the shelter, especially if you pay the fee, just like anyone else..like you said...first come first served...plain and simple.

If you're not prepared to spend the night in the rain...don't hike in it..dont expect others to make adjustments to thier "trip" for you..I know I dont like setting my tent up in the rain. Thats why i'd try to reach the shelter first and utilize it. If its not raining..i might accommodate the caretakers request..and pitch my tent...like I said I like my "own" space better anyway.



M

 

[Mad Townie]

I think I'm in a distinct minority on this one. Years ago my buddy Shrink Rap and I were hiking for a week on the AT in Shenandoah Nat'l Park. We had a tent and used it, until about the third night when we befriended a NoBo named Mike. When he saw us setting up the tent he asked what we were doing. We had seen a sign stating that shelter preference went to "long distance hikers." We didn't consider 100 miles long distance, but Mike did.

Fewer years ago we were hiking the Hundred Mile Wilderness with our kids. On the third day we took a zero because it was pouring and because the kids, 11, 12 and 14, needed a rest (No, not us, just the kids, really.) We had slept in the shelter the first night, but for the second night we used tents because we figured anyone who hiked in that slop deserved a dry shelter spot. Funny, no one complained or objected!

I've never experienced a problem with entitled hikers in shelters.

 

[trailbiscuit]

Um...that's crap. (Aggresively censoring myself here.)
Whether you walked 1000 feet or 1000 miles, you have every right to that shelter space if you got there first. That's how shelters work, period. I can't imagine ever asking someone to move just because they didn't walk as far.

For the most part, thruhikers are good-natured, ravenously hungry, smelly folks, who don't care how much you've hiked to get to the shelter. Bad apples do exist and feel they are entitled to shelter space, free rides, free food, etc. just because they're trying to walk from GA to ME (or ME to GA), but they are few and far between.

The only privilege I felt I had for hiking the AT was the ability to wear my skirt in town...but that's another thread.

 

[dug]

Yeah, I've seen it. And, yes, I've seen it here, too. There are various forms of elitism: Tourists vs. day hikers vs. weekend backpackers vs. week long backpackers vs. section hikers vs. through hikers. Wal-Mart gear vs. EMS gear vs. "real" gear.

A thru-hiker has no more of a right to any location than anyone else. But, if you do get a conversation started most will lose the "I'm better because I've walked more consecutive miles than you" attitude. Same goes with the "I'm better because I've completed my thousand-highest in Coos county list (or whatever list is now in vogue)".

 

[pudgy_groundhog]

The only incidents I've had (or have heard of from friends) involve people (non thru hikers, definite weekend warrior types) hogging the shelters by pitching their tents IN the leantos and spreading their stuff everywhere (once this involved a HUGE stereo, some hand held video games, several large lanterns, a cooler, etc).

Once my friend reached a leanto at night and a guy said to him "I don't know where you think you are sleeping tonight, but it's not here". I think there were two guys in the shelter with the same set up (tent pitched IN the leanto, etc). My friend decided just to keep on moving. The guy had an attitude and it wasn't worth an encounter.

 

[Jeff-B]

Guyot Gusatappo!

Three years ago I was staying at Guyot shelter during the summer, on a weekend, clear weather.
For anyone who does not know this shelter, its one of the best in the Whites with a huge 2nd level bunk platform which keeps the place clean. More room to bunk below as well and probably sleeps 12.
When I got there, I saw a family of 3, Dad and 2 kids, son and girl around 10-12 yrs. I was happy to stay and I unfurrled my bag to claim a spot.
The overflow camping was already getting filled and the designated platforms were full with 2 tents each.
I was surprised the shelter was light, but it was early.
Then came the s..t storm!

One AT hiker gets in and says he has 4 more buddies coming over the next hour. During this time more non-AT hikers start to claim spots, several parties of 2, many more singles.
Eventually it is getting filled.
Then the CARETAKER comes in, hears about the 4 more expected AT hikers and starts to take "inventory" of everyone there.
You won't beleive the result!
He forces the family of 3 out of the shelter...thats right....the "first comers" get ejected to the overflow camping area, which is way overflowed now!

The kids were bummed out big time and crying!

Here is the caretakers reasoning:
"Shelters are for 1-2 people max each group size and priorety given to AT through hikers regardless of thier group size.."

Now someone tell me this is practiced regularly....I think not, but it shows just how the "law" of the land gets played out sometimes.
If I were the Dad with kids, I would have told the Caretaker to go @%#^$&$*% himself, privately away from kids ears of course.....

 

[tycho_32]

Let me start by asking a related question. Who paid for the shelters to be built in the first place? As a previous person already stated there has to be a system for establishing who gets spots in the shelters. Unless you want to pass out "special badges" denoting "rank" as established by the uber-hiking guru president, the only system that makes sense is first come first serve. The only times I have used shelters/tent sites they have not been close to capacity so it has never been a problem. I had a pretty good conversation with an older gentlemen who was a thru hiker. If I had the time and more importantly the money I would thru hike. I respect how they hike and would hope that they would respect how I hike. With a family to support and gas prices the way they are I get out as much as I can.

 

[Danielle]

As Snowman said, we never saw any thru-hikers last year, and would never ourselves, ask people to leave the shelter because they weren't thru-hikers. That is horrible! But as others have said, I am sure it happens... unfortunately...

To be honest, the only time we didn't get a spot at a shelter when we wanted it last year was when we came into a shelter where three guys out for the weekend with their dog had taken over the whole shelter. We were a bit disgruntled, but they weren't budging, so we just shook our heads and set up our tent. What can you do?

I really hope people don't get the idea that all AT hikers think they're better than other hikers! We were always super happy to chat with anyone we came across on the trail, regardless of whether they were thru-hikers or not. After all, we started out as novice day hikers, progressed to cotton-wearing, overly-full backpacking backpackers, learned more and became avid hikers/backpackers, and then eventually became (attempted) thru-hikers. So we have no reason to think we're any better than anyone else! We're just out there to enjoy it like everyone else

 

[RoySwkr]

I think many thru-hikers think they are tougher hikers and better attuned to nature than day hikers, and in most cases they are probably right. That is not an excuse to be snotty about it.

The worst example I have seen was somebody who wrote in to complain that some AT completers listed in the Appalachian Trailway News had not hiked the whole trail that year so they didn't count.

As to shelter space, the AMC Work-for-stay program caters to long distance hikers and weekenders are excluded. The GMC limits stays in any shelter to 2 nights so they don't become residences. In years past there were shelters in the Adk that were "owned" by particular kids camps, with the replacement kids arriving before the first group left.

 

[charlos]

I'm kinda jaded in regards to what i feel is the special attention given to thru-hikers in that i could only dream of being able to afford taking months off from work to go hiking...... my empathy is shrouded by jealousy.