Hillary rips climbers who left dying man

[Maddy]

It's one thing if he was just beyond saving.

But I just don't understand comments like, "they just don't have the reserve" when they continued to go up?


-Shayne

OK...let me try to clarify my comment for you. I should have been more specific in my communication.
1. If you are descending the mountain and are still above 8000 meters you might not have the reserve to help out.
2. If you are ascending the mountain and you are above 8000 meters I think most people would want to help out if they could. Sleeping Bear stated this beautifully in her post. Didn't someone try to help the victim by giving him oxygen but they thought he was too far gone? Perhaps in their hypoxic fog they assessed him incorrectly.Perhaps many more than one individual assessed him incorrectly. That would be most unfortunate if the victim was viable but I could see how it could happen. If they really believed that he was dying and their was nothing more that could be done for him I might understand why they continued their climb. They would have meant him no harm but truly believed that he was beyond help.
So you are right. In this scenario it would have nothing to do with your own "reserve".
3. The other scenario might be that you are a complete idiot, that you don't give two hoots about your fellow climbers, and if they die too bad as long as you can bag your peak and get down alive.
Maybe I am just a naive trauma nurse but I do not believe that most people would behave like this.

 

[C.Tracy]

I do not know anything about high allitude climbing, so I cannot be judgemental of the actions of these people. It seems to me that the death rate for climbers on mt Everest is much higher than OSHA would approve of. I do not know how these people are trained for this climb (are they trained in rescue procedures?). If they are trained to just take care of themselves, then how can people critisize their actions? What if you came across a person who needed medical attention that you did not have a clue on how to give it ? Or better yet, a drowning person and you did not know how to swim. Jump in the water, and both of you drown. I think there are way to many variables that these people have to consider, just to stay alive themselves. Besides, they know the consequences when they start, and if they want to take that risk then that is their business. Would I help someone on the trail, ofcourse, and I would appreciate the same. Mt Everest circumstance ? I do not have to worry about that because I wish to live as long as I can, no need in rushing my death.

 

[sardog1]

3. The other scenario might be that you are a complete idiot, that you don't give two hoots about your fellow climbers, and if they die too bad as long as you can bag your peak and get down alive.
Maybe I am just a naive trauma nurse but I do not believe that most people would behave like this.

Then you probably don't want to read the accounts of climbers who have found their caches of essential equipment, O2 and other supplies plundered this year while they were up higher . . . and relying on it to be there on the way down.

 

[hikingfish]

...or at the very least, spend his last moments on this earth at his side so he didn't die alone.

I'm not trying to cast judgement here, It would seem I'm siding more with the "he knew the danger he was getting himself into" category, but I`d also think that your survival instinct would kick in were you faced with this situation and performing the actions you`ve stated.

I think the coldest I've been was -36C with strong winds in the Mt Valins area in Quebec. I mean, some of the clerks at the park`s chalet were heading to their parked car with goggles; that`s how cold it was! It was FREEZING while walking in the woods. I can only imagine how bad it would be with crazy winds (we're talking about jetstream winds), sitting next to someone who you can basically no longer help, using up your oxygen (I`ll go on a limb here and say "wasting" your oxygen). I can honestly understand your words, but I also think your survival instinct would kick in and you too, would be forced to move along, unless you would want to suffer his faith.

Fish

 

[DougPaul]

I'm not trying to cast judgement here, It would seem I'm siding more with the "he knew the danger he was getting himself into" category, but I`d also think that your survival instinct would kick in were you faced with this situation and performing the actions you`ve stated.

I think the coldest I've been was -36C with strong winds in the Mt Valins area in Quebec. I mean, some of the clerks at the park`s chalet were heading to their parked car with goggles; that`s how cold it was! It was FREEZING while walking in the woods. I can only imagine how bad it would be with crazy winds (we're talking about jetstream winds), sitting next to someone who you can basically no longer help, using up your oxygen (I`ll go on a limb here and say "wasting" your oxygen). I can honestly understand your words, but I also think your survival instinct would kick in and you too, would be forced to move along, unless you would want to suffer his faith.

You were at relatively low altitudes. Sharp had been using oxygen until it ran out. (Oxygen "lowers" the peak by about 3000m or so.) When it ran out (or failed), he "rose" 2000-3000m above his acclimatization level and both his ability to move and generate heat were significantly reduced. Also it is not unusual for climbers to become so exhaused that they collapse while attempting to descend. Survival instinct may not be enough.

Just to give you an idea of the effects of altitude: climbing speeds near the summit are often measured in breaths per step--twenty or so breaths per step are not uncommon. And oxygen weighs 4-7 lbs per bottle--2 or 3 are commonly used on summit day. (Sherpas frequently bring up the third bottle to give to descending clients on guided trips. Boukreev (not using bottled oxygen) carried several bottles back toward the summit as part of his rescue attempt in 1996.) Add in frequent mask/oxygen system failures.

Doug

 

[hikingfish]

Hi DougPaul,
We might not be talking about the same person here. I was referring to the survival instinct of the helping person, not the helpee.

Fish

 

[DougPaul]

Hi DougPaul,
We might not be talking about the same person here. I was referring to the survival instinct of the helping person, not the helpee.

Oops! I was talking about the survival instinct of the victim.

The difficulty of functioning at altitude, of course, applies to both the victim and the rescuer.

Doug

 

[alpinista]

I'm not trying to cast judgement here, It would seem I'm siding more with the "he knew the danger he was getting himself into" category, but I`d also think that your survival instinct would kick in were you faced with this situation and performing the actions you`ve stated.

I think the coldest I've been was -36C with strong winds in the Mt Valins area in Quebec. I mean, some of the clerks at the park`s chalet were heading to their parked car with goggles; that`s how cold it was! It was FREEZING while walking in the woods. I can only imagine how bad it would be with crazy winds (we're talking about jetstream winds), sitting next to someone who you can basically no longer help, using up your oxygen (I`ll go on a limb here and say "wasting" your oxygen). I can honestly understand your words, but I also think your survival instinct would kick in and you too, would be forced to move along, unless you would want to suffer his faith.

Fish

Fish _ you're totally right. I guess I wasn't thinking (even at this altitude!). It wouldn't have been the right move to just sit there with the guy, since both people would likely end up dead.