hurting knees

[weatherman]

Perfect.

Proszach, I would do exactly what you propose. I'm a doc with an interest in sports med (though not a specialist by any means) and though I'm NOT giving you medical advice, a combination of relative rest (i.e. don't do what hurts), inner quad strengthening (again, don't do what hurts), ice (way better than ibuprofen) and stretches (I like Littlebear's IT band stretch described above) PROBABLY won't hurt to try for a couple weeks and MAY help MOST people (see, everything's a caveat these days) with this problem. Bottom line is, listen to your body and you are unlikely to do serious damage. If not better after a couple weeks, cough up the copay and go see somebody who IS board certified in Sports Med. Good luck.

 

[LittleBear]

The hardest part of treating that knee pain was to STOP hiking. When this happened, I was working on the NH 4K's and was planning to hike Katahdin the next month. It was so hard not to hike for 4 weeks, and the Katahdin hike was the first one after that long rest. It was a real test for me, except that because of weather, we turned back after getting part way up Cathedral Trail. I was nervous about the descent, but I had no problems. In fact, I haven't experienced any trouble since.

Good luck.

 

[Dugan]

I would suggest too seeking a good physical therapist along with a doc. A PT specializes in rehab and will tailor a program specifically for you. After a VERY bad experience with a physician's advice in rehabbing an injury a few years ago, I would now demand a referral to a PT.

 

[David Metsky]

I had ITB problems several years ago, and was diagnosed and given a similar list of stretches. Rest, Ibuprofin, and stretches worked wonders for me as well.

-dave-

 

[trailbiscuit]

IT band syndrome, patella femoral syndrome, patella tendinitis...I've had 'em all, just to name a few.

See a doc (I think I read that here somewhere), they give out PT prescriptions like candy. PT is the best. Just do it! But not just when you're at the clinic. Make it habit at home.

First you'll stretch, then you'll stengthen, then you'll be good to go. (Oh yeah, I have a Cho-Pat Dual Action Knee Strap for when it really hurts...good investment at 20 bucks.)

 

[arghman]

I would suggest too seeking a good physical therapist along with a doc. A PT specializes in rehab and will tailor a program specifically for you. After a VERY bad experience with a physician's advice in rehabbing an injury a few years ago, I would now demand a referral to a PT.

well said -- I would, however, make sure the PT shows you how you can do the exercise at home, much better (& cheaper) than occasionally coming in to their exercise clinic (unless it's some weird machine that somehow can't be matched by simpler means). I've seen 3 different PTs for a couple of medical issues. The first one I saw kept having me come back to their clinic saying "lets try this, lets try that" & I should have realized earlier that this PT didn't seem that experienced. The other two I've seen were great.

 

[ajtiv]

I have been having knee problems also
My left knee along the outside runing up and down along the knee
The pain is just under the skin not deep in the joint Dr. said it was strain of the ilio-tibial band a band of tissue running down along the outside of the quad and along the knee. Simple stretching is dealing with this problem.

My right knee hurts only going down hill and if I run more than 3-4 miles.
I had xrays saw and orthopedic Dr. and also went for treatment to a PT
Examination revealed leg muscle are strong , tendons, ligaments etc. after pulling and moving and a pretty thorough checkup all ok
Checked my feet stance pronation supination a little off but not to bad.

Diagnosis ? The only thing the PT could recommend is if the pain continues
orthotics may be the ansewr as my arches may not be supporting my wieght as well as they did when I was younger and are causing undo stress on the knee.

I will keep you all posted as this is still an ongoing issue
Al

 

[Pete_Hickey]

Cycling is usually very good for the knees. It builds muscles without putting much strain on them.

Something else that can help your knees, is hiking barefoot.... really... When barefoot, you're more careful about where and how you place your foot. You'll be letting the muscles take all the force, not the bones/joints. I don't recomend it in winter, though.

Last time I went to see my sports-med doctor about my knees, he kind of laughed at me, and said, "What do you expect? You've got 50 year old knees, and you've been abusing them for years. Don't expect miracles from me. Just ride your bike more."

 

[^MtnMike^]

I had ITB problems several years ago, and was diagnosed and given a similar list of stretches. Rest, Ibuprofin, and stretches worked wonders for me as well.

Ditto here.
I had problems with ITB syndrome last year, the stretches, pain medicines, and rest really helped. It's never something I would have figured out without going to a doctor since the actual problem really had nothing to do with my knee joint.

^MtnMike^

 

[shadowcat]

i did not read thru all the replies so someone may have already mentioned these:
cho pat knee pads
i have terrible and i mean terrible pain in my knees coming downhill from a hike.
i purchased a pr of cho pat knee pads off ebay. they were the cheapest place around. they will run you around $30 each elsewhere and i got a pair for $37 -ish.
altho they are not a cure they will definitely help and are very comfortable to wear vs some of the larger more cumbersome type of knee supports.
here's one seller where you don't have to bid:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=83052&item=7106243092&rd=1&ssPageName=WD1V

the seller i purchased from is:
avantop
you can do a search on him he has all kinds of cho pats in diff sizes etc. i know there's pairs up for bid right now for as little as $17 with no bids yet.
good luck!

 

[Krazo]

My Knee story

Well here goes my knee story:
I had down hill hiking pain problem for 20 years. Never could go for long hikes. Five years ago I started taking gloucosamine chondroitin. Wow, it pretty much worked for me. I do take vitamin I before a hike as preventive medicine for inflammation. Also, when not hiking I alternate days with yoga and free weights. Yoga (Rodney Yee, Yoga for Athletes) keeps me loose especially in the hips. This takes pressure off the knees and back. Lunges with two 20 lb weights builds up the muscles needed for hiking. Now do presi traverse with no problems. In the summer I do carry a chemical ice pack for that once a year flare up. 5 min. of ice and I'm pain free. Been over a year since I needed it. Oh yes, my doctor said you just have old knees. I said thank you and paid with my Medicare card.

 

[ajb]

I had to reply to this, since I'm just back to hiking after 35 physical therapy visits for ilio-tibial band syndrome (serious chronic overuse injury, then I tore it - ouch!).

What I learned is that stretching is essential, but you have to do strengthening at the same time. You can find tons of info about both on the web, but a doctor/ physical therapist will help you pinpoint exactly where your problem is (not necessarily the same place where you feel the pain) and correct any muscular imbalances you might have. I also had to learn a whole new way of walking downhill, not letting my knee rotate inwards.

What my PT did worked, as I've hiked pain-free for the past three weekends.

Best of luck to you.

 

[beaner]

1) Get checked out by a physical medicine or sports medicine doctor. Physical therapy may be recommended and beneficial.
2) During hiking season crosstrain nonimpact only. Don't run on your nonhiking days for conditioning.
3) After a workout ice your knees for 10-20minutes. Stretch before and after the workout. Ibuprofin or anti-inflammatory of choice is a good idea, though take them with some food. Good conditioning will not prevent stomach ulcers.
4) Where some sort of knee support during hike. Can be as simple as elastic knee brace, the longer the better.
5) Glucosomine, 1500mg/day. This takes a while to build up in your system, approx. 3months. Costco's has the best deal.
6) Some sort of resistence training. I hate weights, because that initial moment of inertia tears ligaments, tendons, cartilage, microscopically and potentially macroscopically. I much prefer bowflex. You need to strengthen quads, hams, medially and laterally. Good knee mechanics depends on appropriate muscle balance around the knee
7) The most common knee injury is femoro-tibial syndrome which is due to the patella tracking improperly over the femur and tibia, because of muscle imbalances not supporting the proper motion. See what your doctor says. Remember, sharp pain, unless it's a spasm that can be worked through, is not good. Good luck and Godspeed!

 

[DougPaul]

8) You need to train eccentric (absorbing energy, lowering a weight, hiking downhill) muscle contractions as well as concentric (producing energy, raising a weight, hiking uphill) contractions. Most exercises concentrate on the concentric contractions and ignore the eccentric contractions.

Doug

 

[Crusoe]

Amen.

Message boards, while useful, are no place to get real medical advice. Knees are too complicated and have too many things that can go wrong in tricky ways to rely VftT. Some recomendations can actually cause further damage, so don't try exercises, stretches, or braces until getting a real workup from an MD.

It also pays to find an MD who knows about sports injuries as not all docs understand that "stop hiking" simply isn't a realistic approach.

-dave-

Could not agree more, see your doc, -- but for what its worth. I do simple knee stretches before I cool down by lifting my foot behind me and holding onto it with my hand. Also when I go by a stream I will put a little cold water on my knees and stretch them then too. Get the book "Runners Repair Manuel" for more stretches that you should do.

I also take chick weed capsules I get them at a health food store. Was told about using them for knee pain by an Indian (native American) and could not believe how good it worked. Just had to take them a little while and then stopped. I still stretch when I hike, run etc. and have no knee pain now.

 

[hikehike]

Knee & Leg Pain - Possible Solutions

I am attaching my comments to the thread because it seems the most appropriate place. If it is not then moderators please feel free to move it.

In the last few years I have had a few issues with my knees and legs. I thought I'd write down my thoughts on this with the intent that what I have experienced and found out in my saga to improve my condition may be beneficial to others.

I should mention, that I do not work in the medical field (ie I am not a physician or PT, etc) and therefore, what I am writing is strictly from my experiences and my opinions as a "layman's point of view".

I am in my mid 50's and in pretty good shape... been active for most of my life with a few short durations of inactivity...

Almost 3 years ago I started to experience difficulties/pain in my knees & legs while hiking (worst when going down hills). Pain/problems were getting progressively worse to the point where I was experiencing pain off the trail and in my day to day life activities.

I visited doctors and PT folks and the consensus was that my pain and lack of motion capabilities was associated w/ arthritis and muscle imbalance. In addition I tried to learn (reading/researching) on my own how to get myself out of this mess (if possible).

From all this I have found and am still finding ways to improve my condition, stay injury free and improve my performance.

To all the younger folks... I hope some of what I am writing may be beneficial to you also.... I wish I knew now at an earlier age in regard to improving my performance.

The following are three areas, which have greatly improved my condition and greatly helped me in getting back my hiking legs.

Stretching
When I was younger, everyone always said... "You should stretch before and after exercising..."... I used to say or think.."Yeah.. Yeah... I'm tough.. I don't need no stinkin' stretches!!"... Well, this is not the case... Stretching can not only help prevent injuries (such as torn ligaments, wear on cartilage, etc), but it can also improve your performance (Are you listening younger folks???.... Improve your performance!!!)...

If you get into a routine of stretching twice a day you're doing good. (as a minimum you can do a 5 min stretch in am and 5 min in pm)...

Taking a few yoga classes and/or some reading some yoga books can help you get started and help you develop a routine.

The big thing about stretching is that you should never over do it.... You should never stretch till it hurts... Just stretch to the point just before it starts to hurt and hold it for about 10 secs. Overdoing it can be counter productive and will only hurt/damage your strecthables (ligaments/muscles). If you are like me, over time, and keeping to a routine will make you more stretchable and your range of motion will improve, etc, etc...

Somewhere in my reading about this I found the following wise statement... “Near the end of your exercise session (be it hike, run, paddle, swim, etc..), if you have a choice of whether to run/exercise for the last 5 minutes or stretch for those last 5 minutes, you are much better off stretching for those last 5 minutes.” In another words, the stretching will get you further faster.... if you know what I mean. The stretching will not only prevent/reduce the possibility of injuries, but it will also in the long run, in many ways make you stronger than running those extra 5 minutes.

The Stick
The attached links shows this simple device.

http://www.amazon.com/The-Stick-SG-2000-Marathon/dp/B000R2T5AM

http://www.thestick.com/

This device has helped me immeasurably... You take the stick and roll it over your muscles.. You can use it both before and after your activity (ie your hike and/or run, etc). Also good before you stretch.. Another good use is to put it on a carpeted floor and roll it under the bottom of your foot. Great for sore feet after a hike and/or preventing plantar fascitis (sp?).

The Stick works by warming up the muscles & tendons and improving blood flow/circulation. It is awesome!!!!. It is basically a self massager.

Also, if you don’t want to buy one, you can make a similar gadget by just cutting off a 2’+/- long section of a sturdy broom handle and then use that for similar results...

Either way, it definitely has helped me in recovering/rebounding from a strenuous hike.

Note: You don’t want to roll it over sore muscles if it hurts (same line of thinking here as in stretching - if it hurts, back off until it doesn't)


Glucosamine Chondroitin
Yeah... Yeah... you say... “This is for old farts”. ... Well in that case remember for later.... This supplement has also been a real help for me. Very important comment ---> I have found that the generic brands DO NOT work anywhere near as good as the name brands... Suck it up and spend the extra $$ for the name brand stuff. You’ll save a lot of time wondering waiting and wondering if the stuff is going to kick in and work. In my opinion, there is definitely a big difference... You can always start off with the name brand stuff and the after it starts working and you have a base line, you can then go to the cheaper stuff and see if it works for you... Also from my experience it is good to get the one w/MSM supplement, including hyaluronic acid....

So that’s about it and I hope some of this dialog will help someone else who is where I have been with this and also help others by preventing problems. Everyone’s experience with an injury will be different and finding your way out is very much a personal saga, but hopefully some of what I have jotted down here will help someone else in some manner with theirs...


ps This is definitely not all inclusive/comprehensive.. Other measures also helpful and which I did not bring up include strengthening exercises (ie weight lifting in the right context), using hiking poles and using simple knee braces... And I am sure there are others..

Hiking with a smile again
Andy

 

[bikehikeskifish]

I felt your pain, Andy, and agree with most everything you said, having a similar experience myself.

Tim

 

[The Hikers]

After reading all the scary things that COULD HAVE been wrong with my knees, I guess I am just lucky. 3-4 years ago I would ALWAYS add the braces for the trip down the mountain. Glucosamine and poles have done the trick for me. No pain, no braces now.....and I am older than most of you.
I do take a lot of the weight and jolting off by using the poles down hill, and I have the additional spring -loaded poles.

 

[Hiking with Kat]

I certainly have to agree that when I was younger I stretched very little and now I stretch a lot. My guess is that it helps, but there aren't a lot of controlled studies to prove this.

I've read a fair amount on the subject in the various running magazines that I get and the consensus seems to be that before exercise you want to warm up your muscles before stretching. Go for a walk, short jog or a few jumping jacks. Basically you want to be careful stretching cold muscles.

Stretching after you finish exercise has been shown to be effective at reducing injuries, possibly because it increases the blood flow to the muscles and since they are already warm they are more aminable to stretching. Also I find I don't cramp up if I do some stretching.

I personally didn't find Glucosamine Chondroitin helpful, but maybe I wasn't using a good enough brand. I did find Omega 3 fish oil very helpful for my knees. Basically it’s an anti-inflammatory, so it reduces swelling.

The other thing I've found useful is Pilates, the stronger core muscles seem to help stabilize the body generally which takes some pressure off the knees. I tried yoga, but I actually found a lot of the poses put too much pressure on my knee.

Your mileage will certainly vary and I agree with the advice to see a doctor if you have real problems.

 

[The Hikers]

Glucosomine takes a while to be effective. A lot of people give up on it because it doesn't show immediate results.To work it has to be taken consistantly and for a long enough period for it to build up in the joints.