Hypothermic hiker rescued from Little Haystack by helicopter

[skiguy]

I remember being semi-ridiculed for asking this question many years back when I first started Winter hiking. Seemed like a good idea to me at the time having one or two (or some fluorescent flagging tape) but that seemed to bring out the LNT extremists and their fear of permanently flagging routes. Several people mentioned taking these flags down when they find them, which could be potentially dangerous to the person relying on them. That stood out in my mind. Never wound up using either of them although once or twice I think I wouldn't have minded having a few with me.

Sometimes when I'm camping on a hike I'll hang a few tent stakes on a tree branch to mark my spot to turn into the woods off trail for my site when I go out after dark to tree line to take pictures. I use other landmarks like downed trees, rocks, etc but that reflective flash of the stake in my headlamp makes for a quick and easy location point.

A wand with a reflective tape as long as they are retrieved IMO is totally acceptable. Tying tape to tree branches is where it gets sketchy. Marking an entrance is a great idea if you are doing and out and back. Doing a loop like this hiker was doing is a bit different.

 

[maineguy]

Not to go too far into the blazing topic of a few months ago on this forum, but... a blaze pole with a cross piece anchored in a cairn where the trail leaves open ledge and enters the thickets of dwarf spruce can do much to save lives of wandering hikers.

I encountered these poles anchored into cairns on Medicine Bow Peak in the Snowy Range this past fall. You can spot them at a considerable distance.

 

[Dr. Dasypodidae]

Does anyone in The Whites ever use wands for navigation/bearings?

Yes. I donated a bunch of the green garden stakes with fluorescent orange tape used during my glacier travel days to PVSART, with primarily the Falling Water Trail’s exit in mind.

 

[Creag Nan Drochaid]

Yes. I donated a bunch of the green garden stakes with fluorescent orange tape used during my glacier travel days to PVSART, with primarily the Falling Water Trail’s exit in mind.

Aye, Dr. As for Hillwalker's post on this thread, he notes that "improvements" that contribute greatly to hiker safety
( blazing, rescue gear, shelters, bridges) are often removed by the US Forest Service, especially in designated Wilderness areas. For their rationale, please see their Recreational Opportunity Spectrums.

The last three I listed are often removed even from non-Wilderness areas. This act is often justified on grounds of saving money spent fixing or repairing existing infrastructure, although there are federal Recreational Trails Program grants available, and the USFS has people with the skills to properly administer and justify those grants by conditions of the program.

There are also modern funding mechanisms by Internet; a non-profit could collect gifts to be spent on particular projects, there's your oversight and financial responsibility.

In the early 2000s the USFS had a "Fee Pilot" program: part of parking fees collected on WMNF had to be spent on trail improvements on WMNF. They put out an annual report with color photos and color pie charts to show how they spent it. As one ranger told me in 2014, it's about accountability more than efficiency. Hey, at least we could debate "what" and "where" rather be stuck on "whether."

According to my AMC map # 2 Franconia - Pemigewasset (2007), Franconia Ridge Trail and Falling Waters Trail are not even IN a Wilderness Area, yet this spot lacks blazing, blaze poles, cairns etc. and hikers get off trail in winter conditions and sometimes die there.
There are other places along that ridge similarly risky.

I'll stop here. Blaze poles are cheap enough, and the skill to build and maintain them are common enough among the hiking community...

 

[Ear Drum]

About finding the Falling Waters Trail while descending from Little Haystack: I was last up there in July, and recall seeing the trail there marked with small poles and cord/rope between then, marking a path to keep folks off of the vegetation.

Anyone recall if these stay up in the late fall, winter, and spring? Or is it just a summer addition, when the massive crowds are hiking?

Certainly if these markers and ropes could withstand winter conditions, they would serve to guide a hiker off the ridge and down to the trail.

 

[DayTrip]

About finding the Falling Waters Trail while descending from Little Haystack: I was last up there in July, and recall seeing the trail there marked with small poles and cord/rope between then, marking a path to keep folks off of the vegetation.

These were some of the many signs and barriers I started seeing on the Great Gulf Trail last year too up toward the top before the trail crosses the Cog tracks. Seemed more directed toward staying off the vegetation than a navigational aid. I get why they did it but man do I hate them. Really junks up the alpine zone.

 

[ImYourHuckleberry]

About finding the Falling Waters Trail while descending from Little Haystack: I was last up there in July, and recall seeing the trail there marked with small poles and cord/rope between then, marking a path to keep folks off of the vegetation.

Anyone recall if these stay up in the late fall, winter, and spring? Or is it just a summer addition, when the massive crowds are hiking?

Certainly if these markers and ropes could withstand winter conditions, they would serve to guide a hiker off the ridge and down to the trail.

They were still there in early November this year. Edit: Actually it was late October.

 

[Creag Nan Drochaid]

The short poles holding up the string are indeed there to try to guide the trampling hordes on the trail in snowless seasons (see the Raven
published weekly by Nat Scrimshaw). If they are not tall enough to stick up higher than the snowdrifts, they are worthless for the job we
are debating, and we really need blaze poles. They may be 5' tall anchored in a cairn, they may be 8' tall and tied to a dwarf spruce in the alpine zone. Krummholz is too short to support one.

In 2024 we trimmed and blazed Mowglis Trail from Orange Cove south over Firescrew to summit Cardigan. We did the same on South Ridge Trail from Rimrock to South Peak to Ranger Cabin Trail, then by the ranger cabin and so up Clark Trail to summit Cardigan. Since the last time we did this job about 2018, many of those spruces have grown big enough to take a blaze, so we trimmed them to make blazes visible to
an approaching hiker. We still have 9 pre-painted blaze poles stashed up there, in 2025 we'll tie some to spruces if needed. We'll tote the rest to where they are more needed, maybe on Skyland Trail. BTW, the trailworkers who did that are aged 78 and 73.

These trails are blazed WHITE, per agreement of 1987 with NH Div. F&L, AMC, and CHVTC.

Now hear this: weather and snow conditions remain the same as ever. Only difference is that you may be able to follow trail in winter.
Marking trails in treeless terrain is done all over the world. Whence comes the word cairn? When the LNT purist volunteers to join, train with, and turn out with, say, PVSART when summoned, they are matching words with deeds.

 

[KRooney]

The short poles holding up the string are indeed there to try to guide the trampling hordes on the trail in snowless seasons (see the Raven
published weekly by Nat Scrimshaw). If they are not tall enough to stick up higher than the snowdrifts, they are worthless for the job we
are debating, and we really need blaze poles. They may be 5' tall anchored in a cairn, they may be 8' tall and tied to a dwarf spruce in the alpine zone. Krummholz is too short to support one.

In 2024 we trimmed and blazed Mowglis Trail from Orange Cove south over Firescrew to summit Cardigan. We did the same on South Ridge Trail from Rimrock to South Peak to Ranger Cabin Trail, then by the ranger cabin and so up Clark Trail to summit Cardigan. Since the last time we did this job about 2018, many of those spruces have grown big enough to take a blaze, so we trimmed them to make blazes visible to
an approaching hiker. We still have 9 pre-painted blaze poles stashed up there, in 2025 we'll tie some to spruces if needed. We'll tote the rest to where they are more needed, maybe on Skyland Trail. BTW, the trailworkers who did that are aged 78 and 73.

These trails are blazed WHITE, per agreement of 1987 with NH Div. F&L, AMC, and CHVTC.

Now hear this: weather and snow conditions remain the same as ever. Only difference is that you may be able to follow trail in winter.
Marking trails in treeless terrain is done all over the world. Whence comes the word cairn? When the LNT purist volunteers to join, train with, and turn out with, say, PVSART when summoned, they are matching words with deeds.

Any chance similar blaze poles could be placed where the Falling Waters Trail emerges from treeline on Little Haystack? I'm convinced that if they existed at the spot it would avert the yearly rescues/deaths when hikers head down the ravines having turned short of the trail.

 

[Creag Nan Drochaid]

Any chance similar blaze poles could be placed where the Falling Waters Trail emerges from treeline on Little Haystack? I'm convinced that if they existed at the spot it would avert the yearly rescues/deaths when hikers head down the ravines having turned short of the trail.

Hi, KRooney,
For now, we are talking one trail and one place on it. On that trail, there are a few Powers that Be. In descending order, they seem to be
the Forest Service, the AMC, and the West End Trail Tenders (founded by Laura and Guy). I know not what they would say about a need for blaze poles at this place. People besides me can ask, they are up there more often, know it better than I do...

 

[KRooney]

Hi, KRooney,
For now, we are talking one trail and one place on it. On that trail, there are a few Powers that Be. In descending order, they seem to be
the Forest Service, the AMC, and the West End Trail Tenders (founded by Laura and Guy). I know not what they would say about a need for blaze poles at this place. People besides me can ask, they are up there more often, know it better than I do...

FWIW, according to a map, the Falling Waters Trail is within the Franconia Notch State Park, so unless I'm mistaken, the NH Div. F&L would have jurisdiction. I don't what, if any, arrangements they've made with the AMC.

 

[ImYourHuckleberry]

FWIW, according to a map, the Falling Waters Trail is within the Franconia Notch State Park, so unless I'm mistaken, the NH Div. F&L would have jurisdiction. I don't what, if any, arrangements they've made with the AMC.

My maps show the full ridge outside of the state park. Falling Waters appears to leave the state park within the first mile from the trailhead, at roughly around 2000' elevation. Considering the forest service allowed somebody (AMC?) to chisel steps and traction lines into rock on the Falling Waters trail near the falls, you wouldn't think they would be opposed to marking the trail at the ridgeline, but who knows honestly.

 

[JoshandBaron]

My maps show the full ridge outside of the state park. Falling Waters appears to leave the state park within the first mile from the trailhead, at roughly around 2000' elevation. Considering the forest service allowed somebody (AMC?) to chisel steps and traction lines into rock on the Falling Waters trail near the falls, you wouldn't think they would be opposed to marking the trail at the ridgeline, but who knows honestly.

They are taking on a major relocation project next year, as well.

https://www.fs.usda.gov/project/whitemountain/?project=66490

 

[KRooney]

They are taking on a major relocation project next year, as well.

https://www.fs.usda.gov/project/whitemountain/?project=66490

Interesting. They're going to move about a mile of the trail away from the brook if I'm reading the map correctly.

 

[Ear Drum]

They are taking on a major relocation project next year, as well.

https://www.fs.usda.gov/project/whitemountain/?project=66490

It's probably to avoid how Falling Waters Trail crosses and recrosses Dry Brook below and around Cloudland Falls. Isn't this an area where folks get injured? The link has a map of the re-route. I didn't read all the reports attached there. Thanks for the link!

 

[skiguy]

My maps show the full ridge outside of the state park. Falling Waters appears to leave the state park within the first mile from the trailhead, at roughly around 2000' elevation. Considering the forest service allowed somebody (AMC?) to chisel steps and traction lines into rock on the Falling Waters trail near the falls, you wouldn't think they would be opposed to marking the trail at the ridgeline, but who knows honestly.

The Ridge is the Appalachian Trail which falls under The National Park Service jurisdiction.

 

[sierra]

It's probably to avoid how Falling Waters Trail crosses and recrosses Dry Brook below and around Cloudland Falls. Isn't this an area where folks get injured? The link has a map of the re-route. I didn't read all the reports attached there. Thanks for the link!

They plan to relocate the most scenic part of the trail because people slip on wet or icy rocks? I would not support that, not that anyone will ask me.

 

[JoshandBaron]

They plan to relocate the most scenic part of the trail because people slip on wet or icy rocks? I would not support that, not that anyone will ask me.

Public Involvement
This project was listed on the quarterly White Mountain National Forest Schedule of Proposed Actions (SOPA) beginning in July 2024 and updated periodically during the analysis. The White Mountain National Forest is conducting this project in partnership with the Appalachian Mountain Club. No public input was received.

 

[DayTrip]

They plan to relocate the most scenic part of the trail because people slip on wet or icy rocks? I would not support that, not that anyone will ask me.

That was my first take. Going to be a much more boring albeit safer trail. I'd rather have seen some rock step staircases and other such "artificial" constructions (which I generally do not like because it is unnatural and out of place hiking in the woods to me) to maintain the existing route. No doubt that would cost much more and take much longer so I'm sure it was not under consideration. The fact that they didn't open it up for public comment would suggest they had a specific agenda in mind from the start. That section of the trail has been a classic feature of that route for decades. I guess the spur trail to Cloudland Falls will be the "consolation prize" for people who enjoy the river and various waterfalls along the trail.

 

[TomK]

They plan to relocate the most scenic part of the trail because people slip on wet or icy rocks? I would not support that, not that anyone will ask me.

Public Involvement
This project was listed on the quarterly White Mountain National Forest Schedule of Proposed Actions (SOPA) beginning in July 2024 and updated periodically during the analysis. The White Mountain National Forest is conducting this project in partnership with the Appalachian Mountain Club. No public input was received.

Well, I guess "they" "checked the box". Are many people who might have an opinion likely to check out the "quarterly White Mountain National Forest Schedule of Proposed Actions (SOPA)" on a regular basis? Actually, I wouldn't be surprised if there are a few folks who are active in this forum who do, but I'll go out on a limb and speculate that it is not widely read.

Would probably take a few hours of some intern's time to reach out a bit, post in this forum and a few others that are more widely read, check back from time to time, and summarize any comment for the record. But that would make some sense, so I expect it will never happen.

TomK