I-93 crash

[KauaiGuy]

Saturday I borrowed my wife's car to drive to the Cog base and hike the Jewell. All-wheel drive WITH four studded snow tires. We started using studs on her car seasonally because we have a 600' driveway that sometimes ices over. I can't speak to the cars behind you, but studs will give you stopping and steering control. If you can see it, you won't hit it. I just surveyed the laws in 6 New England states. Studs are allowed in season in ALL six. As it turned out, Saturday's snowstorm waited until I was safely back, but the base road was snow packed and no gem. Today's studs aren't terribly noisy, and at $12 extra per tire, offer great security for those of us who hike up North.

 

[jniehof]

until we hit wet snow in Pennsylvania and in the course of the next two hours saw 12 ... yes 12 ... jackknifed or overturned 18 wheelers ... and you'd think those are the professional drivers who should know better. Idiots.

It's entirely possible the trucks went into the ditch suddenly braking or otherwise evading idiots in smaller vehicles who cut them off. I see that a LOT.

 

[peakbagger]

I am not so sure on TJs theory, as a "local" the general observations are the "lemming" theory is in effect for winter driving conditions in the whites. A pack of out of state SUVs will group together and exceed the safe travel speed forgetting that unless they have studs, modern technology has given them the tools to go far faster in marginal traction conditions than they can safely stop. In slippery conditions, pulling over out of the travel lane to let them pass is not a good option as sometimes, the shoulder can be glare ice while the travel lane is marginally passable. In some cases pulling over into the shoulder even with a bit of snow can cause a spin by the driver pulling over. Generally, the inpatient SUV driver will instead elect to make an unsafe pass and on occasion will be rewarded with a trip into the ditch. On slippery winter days, the vehicles in the ditch seem to be over whelmingly out of state SUVs. It may be that the locals just stay home and thus the SUVs are a much higher percentage of the traffic on the road.

The event that occurred on I-93 did not appear to be a traditional white out rather it was apparently a combination of a white out and a road surface that froze when the snow hit. Thus once someone started to slide, the cars behind had no chance to avoid the initial vehicle that had slid.

 

[sdways01]

Friday I hiked the Wildcats and on the way there the radio was talking about how well traffic was moving with some people still on vacation. After the hike, one of the first news stories I heard was about the state confirming 35 cars involved in 2 crashes near/in Ashland with one tractor trailer truck catching fire after a car went under it. It was nice that I was coming in from the north for once instead of the south. One good thing about spending New Years weekend at camp near the top of the state.

 

[DayTrip]

Funny. The Waze app tracks the speed of its users and warns of reported hazards. I wonder how quickly it warned users: "Slow down, accident ahead." Probably took a minute or two, but might have helped cut down on ppl driving unawares into the pile-up. I use it all the time for any drive of more than 50 miles, sometimes for shorter ones, too. Don't think Siri/Apple and Google Maps do this as well as Waze yet.

Waze is an awesome app. Use a lot for work. It warns of hazards 1/2 mile in advance, but that depends on someone reporting in the first place. It is likely no one had posted about it before the fun began. No substitute for actually watching the road.

 

[DayTrip]

Coming home from one winter roadtrip where over 10,000 miles we hadn't seen so much as a fender bender ... until we hit wet snow in Pennsylvania and in the course of the next two hours saw 12 ... yes 12 ... jackknifed or overturned 18 wheelers ... and you'd think those are the professional drivers who should know better. Idiots. Lucky they didn't kill anyone 'cause you don't win a battle with 18 wheelers ... the lawyer for your estate might but you don't. There were also 4 cars in various states of distress in the median or the ditch.

Most 18 wheelers are involved in accidents as a result of stupid car drivers doing dumb stuff without realizing how much more difficult it is to stop 10,000-12,000 lbs of moving vehicle as opposed to your 3,000-4,000 lb car. I'm not saying they're perfect but I do enough driving to realize what a car can do to a truck.

 

[DayTrip]

It's entirely possible the trucks went into the ditch suddenly braking or otherwise evading idiots in smaller vehicles who cut them off. I see that a LOT.

EXACTLY. See the same thing in my travels all the time.

 

[psyculman]

Saturday I borrowed my wife's car to drive to the Cog base and hike the Jewell. All-wheel drive WITH four studded snow tires. We started using studs on her car seasonally because we have a 600' driveway that sometimes ices over. I can't speak to the cars behind you, but studs will give you stopping and steering control. If you can see it, you won't hit it. I just surveyed the laws in 6 New England states. Studs are allowed in season in ALL six. As it turned out, Saturday's snowstorm waited until I was safely back, but the base road was snow packed and no gem. Today's studs aren't terribly noisy, and at $12 extra per tire, offer great security for those of us who hike up North.

Thanks, I have always been told they are not legal in Mass.

 

[bikehikeskifish]

http://drivinglaws.aaa.com/laws/studded-tires/

Massachusetts

Studded tires are permitted November 2 to April 30 unless otherwise authorized by Registrar.


Tim

 

[Hillwalker]

Most 18 wheelers are involved in accidents as a result of stupid car drivers doing dumb stuff without realizing how much more difficult it is to stop 10,000-12,000 lbs of moving vehicle as opposed to your 3,000-4,000 lb car. I'm not saying they're perfect but I do enough driving to realize what a car can do to a truck.

You are a little low on the weight of a fully loaded rig. They can top out at around 80,000 pounds.

 

[Stan]

Most 18 wheelers are involved in accidents as a result of stupid car drivers doing dumb stuff without realizing how much more difficult it is to stop 10,000-12,000 lbs of moving vehicle as opposed to your 3,000-4,000 lb car. I'm not saying they're perfect but I do enough driving to realize what a car can do to a truck.

I'm sure there are drivers causing trucks to get into accidents but I think you overstate it when you say "most". Even those caused by the car rather than the truck are not always the result of stupidity. Besides, blaming cars may be a convenient alibi when it comes time to preserving one's license or job. The truck driver has a responsibility to drive to conditions too, keeping the weight and momentum of the vehicle in mind. I think they'd go slower than a car ... and in my experience, that is sometimes the case.

Returning to my observation of the dozen jacknifed and overturned 18 wheelers, are you saying that the weather caused car drivers to all of a sudden get stupid and start cutting off trucks? Not an incident on a 10,000 mile road trip until we hit the weather ... and then the accidents were mostly 18 wheelers by a 3:1 ratio even though cars exceeded trucks by perhaps a similar ratio.

... and Woodstock, CT is a beautiful town.

 

[Stan]

I'm fairly confident that the most dangerous part of traveling with traffic is the speed gradient, regardless of which side of the spectrum a driver may fall on. If conditions are poor and 'traffic' is generally going 45, it seems just as reckless to me to go 25 as it does to go 65. It would be my hope that someone not comfortable driving with the flow of traffic in bad conditions would just not drive, as confidence (but not cockiness) is important. If someone feels that traffic is going too fast, but they are confident that their speed is reasonable, then pull over and let people by and continue at your own pace. I think most drivers recognize when someone (even themselves) is driving much too fast for traffic conditions (tailgating/intimidating, lots of lane changes, etc), but driving too slowly is also a hazard as it forces traffic through a choke point (especially if the offending driver is in a passing lane). This results in lots of extra lane changes by other drivers and the slowing down of at least two lanes of travel as a result - which I would argue is overall a more dangerous situation for everyone. Of course, this is just conjecture and opinions on my part - I'd be fascinated if someone had any data on the phenomenon.

Anyway, just don't be like my dad, who while driving down Bethoud Pass at 5 under the speed limit created a queue of around 15 cars behind him. I suggested he use one of the [many many] pull-outs to let people pass. He replied, "Why would anyone want to go any faster than this?" and continued driving. This is now an oft-quoted phrase whenever we get stuck behind an oblivious or self-appointed pace car.

I agree. I also agree with your Dad and sometimes have different obscenities for people who pass under extreme conditions and for people who slow me down. Don't they all know that whatever my speed is it is the correct one!?

Seriously, you are correct that when one's comfort level of speed starts to back up traffic, then make way somehow. That's just good manners. My example was for the white out and in that case, no one can see how many cars are in back, or in front. Obviously, it depends on the road you're on, too. I've seen people pull over and stop under some conditions. No shame in that and far less inconvenient than an accident.

 

[TJsName]

I am not so sure on TJs theory, as a "local" the general observations are the "lemming" theory is in effect for winter driving conditions in the whites.

Lemmings is awesome: https://archive.org/stream/gg_Lemmi...e_Psygnosis__Sega.bin?module=gamegear&scale=2

 

[BISCUT]

While not so prevalent on 93 (yet, yes I know they are there as well) the truckers with Quebec plates are beyond dangerous on the 91 corridor. Due to my job and my hobbies, I have a lot of snow and ice driving hours under my belt. Not all truckers cause issues, but a huge majority of independent owned truckers sure as hell do!! And this is from the guy who will ride your ass in the snow at 50mph and beg you to just move over. For me a lot of issues are caused by those who are scared or inexperienced. If so it's ok, but move aside. I tend to move a tad bit past the posted speed limit, but if you come up on my azz I'm aside in a second. I don't own that road, and neither do you. We collectively pay for it. Common courtesy is to move aside.

Moving aside: If you drive often all over NE and NY you already know, if you see CT plates.....they won't move aside. I have had friends visit from Texas, VA (yikes), FL, GA and even they saw right away how rude the CT drivers are. Amazing to me, CT is even more self absorbed than NY drivers. Avoid a lot of issues, if someone is on ur ass let him/her by and if someone is driving crazy, safe route is them ahead of you where YOU can control how you react to them. Big trucks, let them by!!! They have so much mass behind them, even empty, it's just a no brainer.

 

[dug]

The problem with riding my ass in a snowstorm is that maybe I'm going 40, and the car next to me is going 30, I'm not moving. Plus, the lane change with a build up of snow in the middle can be tricky, so you riding my bumper doesn't really help much.

I'll move when I'm ready, and when I feel it's safe, not when you want me to.

 

[BISCUT]

The problem with riding my ass in a snowstorm is that maybe I'm going 40, and the car next to me is going 30, I'm not moving. Plus, the lane change with a build up of snow in the middle can be tricky, so you riding my bumper doesn't really help much.

I'll move when I'm ready, and when I feel it's safe, not when you want me to.

Let's assume there is no one in your way to move aside, that was my intended situation. Where a single driver "decides" for all what is a safe speed. Scared, inexperienced, snow driver should not be driving. If you drive in snow, you see them all over, braking into corners when simply removing your foot from the pedal works best; not having enough speed to ascend a steep slope YET braking just before the incline; etc... These are the people who get stuck half way up the hill and slide down or cause everyone else to go around and fender bender time.