I didn't realize they still allowed jerks on the mountains

[Mr. X]

When I was hiking with my girlfriend I noticed twice she really trampled some alpinezone vegitation. I had to remind her like 3 times how fragile these plants are. I don't think she damaged them too badly, but it is an example of what sometimes happens even when you tell the whole world (or somtimes 1) about somthing it just doesn't get through.

 

[lamerunner]

It is indeed too bad someone felt the need to be rude. I was on Eisenhower Sunday the 3d with an extended family group, including my two kids. There were several unleashed dogs but the people were friendly.

It is not always easy to remember to avoid the vegetation; I had to remind my daughter (who does know) and explain the whole issue to my five year old. I would have been horrified if a stranger had yelled at either of them. Not that they were trampling all over; they were not , but my five year old son has not had that much above treeline experience so I had to educate him.

Busybodies should stay home on holiday weekends!

 

[spicyjeff]

I second the notion that there must be some attractions of Ike for these types of people. The only place I've encountered rude and obnoxious behavoir in my hiking of the 48 was on Eisenhower recently. The type that spent 30 seconds reading an interpretive sign or bought the book or map and suddenly are experts that get to tell everyone else what to do. In the mean time their dogs are unleashed and bothering the crowd on the summit and if you ask them to leash their dog they respond like you just murdered a member of their family.

 

[Onesong]

It helps me to deal with people like that when I think that there really are no
jerks, just people stuck in their own ignorance.

 

[Sherpa John]

As a trail adopter of an Alpine Zone trail, I find it rather difficult to find the right words in explaining to folks why it is important to stay on the trail. I Appreciate this thread because from it I got some wonderful ides on how to go about things.

On the other hand... some folks get VERY combative even when asked to stay on the trails as if they "know what they are doing." it really is a shame there are some closed minded folk out there.

I'm very sorry you were scolded by a complete MORON on Eisenhower. perhaps it was time to change his diaper.

 

[RGF1]

A few reasons there are alot of people on Ike and a few Morons could be .It is a reletivley easy mountain to hike, has great views, is in the Presidentails and is a few hours or less from two huts not to mention it has a good amount of area above tree line. Ok Back to the orignal topic
Regdarless the guy was a jerk and had no place yelling at some one. It certainly does not make one feel educated .At worse it could lead to a confrontation. Now that would realy not be good .

 

[Tom Rankin]

Patrick -

So that I understand you - you were on the top of Eisenhower, off the trail on the alpine tundra, and another hiker spoke to you about it. Are you venting because 1) You weren't off the trail, 2) You think it's inappropriate for another hiker to call being off trail to your attention 3) You felt the other hiker was rude in the way he/she brought this to your attention or 4) none of the above.

I was out and about myself over the weekend, mostly above treeline and there were LOTS of people as you might expect, people were using the summits much the same way they do in parks - lounging everywhere, sprawled on blankets, etc. Kinda makes you wince to see it, especially when you know how long it takes a diapensia to recover from one boot print, but ... fortunately, it's been a very wet spring and maybe this will help the plants and flowers recover more quickly (as in 30 years, not 50)

Kevin, I agree with you, as the 'minority report' here. It only takes 1 stray boot to kill a plant. Last summer, I spent a few hours with the naturalist at Lakes of the Clouds, and she really helped hammer home how fragile the alpine zones are.

Please everyone, do everything you can to preserve these special places....

 

[forestgnome]

Every trail that leads into the alpine zone states "...please stay on the trail OR ON BARE ROCKS".

There is no law violated when walking off the trail. I stay out of places that have been specifically signed for revegitation, etc. I also repair scree walls every time I hike, and I avoid stepping on the zillions of plants that grow right on the trail bed, like all the mountain daisys on Bond Cliff Trail.

If I want to leave the trail, I'll leave the trail.

I was once harrassed by an eco-warrior for being off the trail on the summit cone of Washington, miles from the nearest plant life. He got my attention then yelled "WE try to keep people focused on the trail" No doubt he was a trail guide from a certain local club, who thought he had some kind of jurisdiction over the little people who are guests in his place. I yelled back that I was stepping on bare rock. Then he yelled that "actually the lichens are fragile". I gave him a disgusted "buzz off" wave of my hand and just kept hiking. A moment later I turned back to see that he left his group and was running toward me, trampling millions of fragile lichens into oblivion! The horror! He was about a mile away and downhill. It was comical and very disturbing at the same time. I didn't want a physical confrontation with such an emotional moron, so I decided to play a game and I led him all over the summit cone I guess his noble cause justified his lichen carnage.

I hike solo and avoid people now.

 

[patrickbrusil]

"Every trail that leads into the alpine zone states "...please stay on the trail OR ON BARE ROCKS".

There is no law violated when walking off the trail. I stay out of places that have been specifically signed for revegitation, etc."


The above quote is pretty much my mentality, whether it is judged as good or bad.

In response to kevin's post:
I was certainly off the trail.
I was certainly stepping on rocks.
The situation was certainly handled in a rather piss poor mannor.


I sort of think that bringing up such actions to another hiking is more or less pointless as most anyone who is heading up to a summit knows that the alpine zone vegitation is fragile and probably read the sign upon entering the "zone" stating this.

I understand the mindset that if you can change one persons thinking about this then you are helping to keep the ecosystem healither and pass on knowledge from one hiker to another. I understnad that if we all sit back and allowed everyone to do what they wanted at the summits then the white mountains would look more like a junk yard.

I'm not sure where this is going........... was I "wrong" to step off the trail? "Yes".

Like I told the man: He was right and I was wrong.

On that note some very interesting replies to this thread.
Goodnight to all.

 

[Frosty]

Patrick -

So that I understand you - you were on the top of Eisenhower, off the trail on the alpine tundra, and another hiker spoke to you about it. Are you venting because 1) You weren't off the trail, 2) You think it's inappropriate for another hiker to call being off trail to your attention 3) You felt the other hiker was rude in the way he/she brought this to your attention or 4) none of the above.

I thought Patrick's post made all these questions rather clear (the dude who tried to scold me on top of Ike today -for walking on the rocks in the alpine scrub ):

1) he was off the trail (though on rocks not on tundra)
2) the other hiker scolded (rather than spoke)
3) same as 2)

My first experience above treeline was with a group of experienced hikers. Near Thunderstorm Junction I sat down on some vegetation commenting that it was softer than rocks. One guy said, "Actually, they prefer you stay on the rocks up here. The plants are pretty fragile." Others in the group nodded; no one else said anything. I stood up and found a flat rock to sit on and made sure my feet were not on any plants.

I'm glad no one tried to scold or belittle me. Because of the way the information was presented, I learned something and those plants were saved, or at least spared from further damage, and I've never forgotten and always take care where I walk above treeline.

But like many others, I don't respond well to bullying or ridicule. It is difficult to accept a message from someone when it is delivered that way.

I've met lots of people who use their knowledge to form a partnership with those less informed (as I was) and the results are beneficial. Unfortunately, I've met an equal number of people who seem to feel superior when showing off how smart or important they are. I'm glad my experience was a positive one, so different from the episode Patrick described.