ice ax training

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Wow, it sure wasn't that expensive in 2002! But this is a 3-day course and includes food and lodging so it's actually not an unreasonable cost, especially if it is in fact a good course (it's hard to tell since beginners are welcome). Cost-wise, it's on par with 3 nights in a motel, meals, and 3 days of skiing lift tickets.

IME in N Conway has classes and private instruction, don't they?
 
The AMC course sounds great, but if I'm going to pay $700 to get to the summit of Mt Washington in winter it's going to involve the SnoCat and an overnight stay on the summit. Wait, I can get that for free with a volunteer week at the Obs. :)

Interested to hear more feedback after whatever course you choose. Would really be a good thing to do I'd we're going to get more serious with winter hiking
 
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Interested to hear more feedback after whatever course you choose. Would really be a good thing to do I'd we're going to get more serious with winter hiking

You don't need ice ax training in order to do winter hiking - or maybe I misunderstood your post?
 
I took the AMC course. At the time it was called "Winter Mountain Skills II" and involved going up into Tuckerman Ravine and learning how to self-arrest (as well as crampon technique and other goodies). Instruction as well as practicum: after being taught how to recover from each type of fall, we would throw ourselves down a snow slope in each orientation combination of head & feet first, prone & supine, and attempt arrest from that position using what we'd just learned. Each position requires a different move. It was very educational and a lot of fun, too. It included meals and lodging at Pinkham. It was a good course.

Looks like this may be the current version, I recommend calling and asking about the details:
http://activities.outdoors.org/search/index.cfm/action/details/id/63985

Gosh...I wonder if we were in the same class! :D Your description is most accurate. I have taken WMS 1 &2 . Lots of fun!
 
Gosh...I wonder if we were in the same class! :D Your description is most accurate. I have taken WMS 1 &2 . Lots of fun!

And in fact, Rebecca Brown, author of Women on High: Pioneers of Mountaineering, was in my class. Of course, I also learned what happens when you roll, the axe doesn't bite, but your toes do. Ow ow ow ow ow. That was a week on crutches.
 
And in fact, Rebecca Brown, author of Women on High: Pioneers of Mountaineering, was in my class. Of course, I also learned what happens when you roll, the axe doesn't bite, but your toes do. Ow ow ow ow ow. That was a week on crutches.
I can't believe that. And with your physical prowess! I bet I took my course a "few" years before you. Rebecca Brown no less. That is impressive.
 
That sounds like the "standard class" in self arrest. I think it's taught just about the same everywhere. That description exactly fits the class I took from AAI on Mount Baker in 1990. What was nice on Baker was that we had big glacial slopes to practice on. We set up ropes in a "J" configuration, so you could slide 100'+ before the rope would gradually bring you to a stop. That let us practice what it feels like to arrest after picking up some speed. Good stuff.
 
700 bucks to summit Washington? cmon its not k2. I'll get you to the summit for a C-note and teach you how to use an axe in the process, actually I'll do it for free if you want.
 
I certainly didn't pay anything close to that when I took it and stayed at Joe Dodge. Gone are the days.......
 
If you want to do some AMC hikes then ice axes are required. I've tried hard to keep my mouth shut about this requirement. I'll go out on a limb and say I think it's probably a ridiculous requirement and a dangerous one at that. I will show up with my ice axe and steer clear of the other hikers with theirs. If I were more confident about winter hiking I'd simply hike on my own. In the meantime, it's group (winter) hiking for me.

I've signed up for the EMS 1 day course. $150.


You don't need ice ax training in order to do winter hiking - or maybe I misunderstood your post?
 
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If you want to do some AMC hikes then ice axes are required. I've tried hard to keep my mouth shut about this requirement. I'll go out on a limb and say I think it's probably a ridiculous requirement and a dangerous one at that. I will show up with my ice axe and steer clear of the other hikers with theirs. If I were more confident about winter hiking I'd simply hike on my own. In the meantime, it's group (winter) hiking for me.
Pragmatically, it depends on the terrain and snow/ice conditions. On many routes, ski poles are safer and more useful--particularly in the hands of hikers who are not axe-trained. I have carried both on some routes.

Doug
 
If you want to do some AMC hikes then ice axes are required. I've tried hard to keep my mouth shut about this requirement. I'll go out on a limb and say I think it's probably a ridiculous requirement and a dangerous one at that. I will show up with my ice axe and steer clear of the other hikers with theirs. If I were more confident about winter hiking I'd simply hike on my own. In the meantime, it's group (winter) hiking for me.

I've signed up for the EMS 1 day course. $150.
Hmmm ... I'm assuming by AMC hikes then you mean Chapter hikes. I can think of only one trail where one might come in handy, and then only for ascent, but - as they say, YMMV. I'll check into it.
 
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You don't need ice ax training in order to do winter hiking - or maybe I misunderstood your post?

I meant a broader "winter skills" course - not specifically using an axe. We've been doing winter hiking for a few years but have avoided anything that goes beyond needing snowshoes or microspikes. Not sure how far we want to go beyond that, but would be good to have the knowledge to deal with more difficult conditions if we run into them.
 
Just to sidetrack for a moment:

There are people who claim an ice axe is never required in the Whites, and my position is that they're fools. There are definitely locations on popular hikes where an unarrested fall will result in serious injury or death. Not many, and they're very specific, but they do exist. Locations where I like to have mine in hand: snowfields on Washington and in the northern Presidentials, the snowfield on Lafayette, the slide on Wildcat A, the ice flow on Kinsman Ridge Trail between Cannon and Coppermine Col, and any time the conditions are packed/icy such that a slip is going to result in an uncontrolled slide (I recall a day on KRT in Kinsman Glade where only the crampon points would penetrate the surface; a stumble and fall would have been ... bad ... without self-arrest).

That said, the common rule is "better without it than untrained with it" because if you don't know what you're doing, you could easily injure or kill yourself with the axe.

PS - it's not just the axe to be conscious of when performing self-arrest. Get those feet up in the air! Snagging a crampon while sliding is a great way to break a leg, tumble uncontrollably, and die.

PPS - axe technique is not just self-arrest. There's also planting the axe into the snow while hiking. That's something that I was taught in a Tucks snowfield, but I have not needed in the Whites ever since. Only carry and be ready for self-arrest.
 
I gave up on the rope. I found it too difficult to lasso a passing tree or boulder while sliding down a steep slope at a high rate of speed.

Wait... did I misunderstand?

:confused:
:D

-Steve

Actually, I would go with the whip idea instead of the rope. After all, it works for Indiana Jones pretty nicely! Hee Hee:D
Sunshine Chris
 
I'll keep that in mind - maybe after this winter with more winter experience. I'll check out the Trips and Events to see what's up and maybe I can join in on a posted hike.

I'd be curious to know how many of you do solo winter hikes.

"There are other groups to go with. You could even form your own using Trips and Events here.

Tim "
 
Good info here. Thanks.

Just to sidetrack for a moment:

There are people who claim an ice axe is never required in the Whites, and my position is that they're fools. There are definitely locations on popular hikes where an unarrested fall will result in serious injury or death. Not many, and they're very specific, but they do exist. Locations where I like to have mine in hand: snowfields on Washington and in the northern Presidentials, the snowfield on Lafayette, the slide on Wildcat A, the ice flow on Kinsman Ridge Trail between Cannon and Coppermine Col, and any time the conditions are packed/icy such that a slip is going to result in an uncontrolled slide (I recall a day on KRT in Kinsman Glade where only the crampon points would penetrate the surface; a stumble and fall would have been ... bad ... without self-arrest).

That said, the common rule is "better without it than untrained with it" because if you don't know what you're doing, you could easily injure or kill yourself with the axe.

PS - it's not just the axe to be conscious of when performing self-arrest. Get those feet up in the air! Snagging a crampon while sliding is a great way to break a leg, tumble uncontrollably, and die.

PPS - axe technique is not just self-arrest. There's also planting the axe into the snow while hiking. That's something that I was taught in a Tucks snowfield, but I have not needed in the Whites ever since. Only carry and be ready for self-arrest.
 
I did 19/48 solo last winter. I met various people along the way on almost every trip. Moriah was the only one I can think of that I did not run into at least one other hiker, and I hiked weekdays for a good number of the 48. I plan to advertise some more trips this winter, but I cannot commit to long lead times... usually Thursday or Friday for Saturday or Sunday.

Stay tuned,
Tim
 
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