ice traction aids: do they work on wet ledges?

[arghman]

Stabilicers don't work on wet ledge, do they? My guess is no, or if yes then not very much and it depends on the rock type / surface smoothness, and even then you'd probably just wreck them.

 

[NH_Mtn_Hiker]

Stabilicers don't work on wet ledge, do they? My guess is no, or if yes then not very much and it depends on the rock type / surface smoothness, and even then you'd probably just wreck them.

Exactly! Caution seems to work better.

Although I have used stabilicers a few times at brook crossings with some success.

 

[sardog1]

The packaging for Stabilicers warns explicitly not to use them on rock, if memory serves. If there isn't an ice substrate to bite into, then reducing the areal contact between foot and rock, by switching from boot sole to Stabilicer edges, is a poor idea friction-wise, methinks.

OTOH, Stablicers are a boon when 'whackin' through the woods in winter, in addition to their customary uses on verglas, etc. You wouldn't want to be on crampons on top of loose snow on top of icy/wet wood and leaves. However, the Stabilicers are pretty slick for this purpose. (Yes, the perverse pun IS intended.)

I tried last winter to get a discussion going on tricounis, but no one seemed to get the point. Okay, okay, I'll go sit in my pun-free corner now ....

 

[sp1936]

I was disappointed with Stabilicers; much prefer Yaktrax.

Steve

 

[forestgnome]

I don't like anything on my boots until the ice/snow is deep enough to take the teeth of crampons without the teeth touching ground. It doesn't seem to be worth the fatigue.

I just go slowly and carefully, and I use a single pole without the handstrap.

Happy autumn!

 

[sapblatt]

I am very happy with my
stabilicers...I find them to work well on mixed terrain for short stretches. I wore them down a wet, icy, snowy, muddy Gale River Trail in May with no issues. They are not for wet ledges, but I have taken a few careful stps in that matter. You just need to be careful. The spikes are replaceable...for about $4.

 

[Tim Seaver]

I tried last winter to get a discussion going on tricounis, but no one seemed to get the point.

I would have to agree, it's a topic which doesn't get much "traction" with most folks.

Although I have been using screwed boots under the right conditions for years , I have found that most people are unwilling to even try them. It's kind of a "Green Eggs and Ham" thing.

This is a picture of a 3 season boot with standard sheet metal screws - since then I have switched to motorcyle racing screws, which are much more effective.

More than a few people seem to think that this somehow "ruins" the boot sole, which isn't the case - you can remove the screws, leaving only a tiny hole where each screw was. The only exception would be very hard or old soles, which don't seem to recover as well.

 

[Tim Seaver]

Thanks for this info, Tim. We have a mutual friend who does the same thing with her boots.

Here is where I bought mine - I used the 1/2" length, as the shorter ones can pop after awhile (barefoot hikers take note!)

They work exceptionally well on wet lichen encrusted rock, as well as low angle ice. Ice patches on an otherwise rocky trail in late fall or spring are their forte, without the "squirm factor" of the strap-on types like Stabilicers. Smooth, very hard water polished rock is the one thing that they will not grip.

 

[DougPaul]

I tried last winter to get a discussion going on tricounis, but no one seemed to get the point. Okay, okay, I'll go sit in my pun-free corner now ....

Having read too many old mountaineering books...

IIRC, tricounis (boot nails) were made of soft iron which grab hard rock (eg granite) fairly well. Don't know about soft rocks like shale. They were probably at their best on icy slopes (think dull crampons). British climbers on greasy rock would use wellingtons (rubber storm boots) or wool socks over their boots. Doesn't sound to me like the nails were very good on wet/greasy rock.

Any NE white water boater who has used an aluminum canoe knows how well the soft metal grabs onto clean granite rock...

I suspect the modern substitutes (eg yaktrax, screws in boots, etc) use a harder grade of steel which lasts longer, but does not grip as well on rock.

Trivia: many of the patterns in moden rubber hiking soles resemble the tricounis nail patters of yesterday.

More trivia for those who are concerned about the noise and marks left by hiking poles: nailed boots were much worse on both counts.

Doug

 

[Tim Seaver]

I suspect the modern substitutes (eg yaktrax, screws in boots, etc) use a harder grade of steel which lasts longer, but does not grip as well on rock.

Having actually USED screwboots for several hundred miles of hiking, I can tell you that they grip quite well.

I would not, could not, in the rain.
Not in the dark. Not on a train.
Not in a car. Not in a tree.
I do not like them, Sam, you see.
Not in a house. Not in a box.
Not with a mouse. Not with a fox.
I will not eat them here or there.
I do not like them anywhere!

 

[DougPaul]

I suspect the modern substitutes (eg yaktrax, screws in boots, etc) use a harder grade of steel which lasts longer, but does not grip as well on rock.

Having actually USED screwboots for several hundred miles of hiking, I can tell you that they grip quite well.

OK. But my comment was a comparison of soft iron to hard steel. The surface of the soft iron would likely deform to match the texture of the rock and give even more traction.

This certainly happens when an aluminum canoe hits a textured hard rock.

Similar to soft rubber car tires gripping better than but wearing out faster than harder rubber tires.

Also, in rock climbing, (old) soft iron pitons often stick so well that they, unlike the modern chrome-moly steel pitions, could not be removed.

Doug

 

[Orsonab]

Groan

I tried last winter to get a discussion going on tricounis, but no one seemed to get the point. Okay, okay, I'll go sit in my pun-free corner now ....

I think you've hit the nail on the head with this comment. The Stabilicer debate always seems to cause much friction when it's raised: people are accused of having a screw loose, or having no grip on reality. Personally, I'd tread carefully when raising the subject for fear of being slipped an insult or two.

Me? I love my Stabilicers but I wouldn't use them on wet rock