iHikeGPS for iPhone and iPad

[Craig]

In another 10 years you'll be able to get affordable wireless broadband anywhere in the US.

 

[Neil]

In another 10 years you'll be able to get affordable wireless broadband anywhere in the US.

And in another 20 you'll have a 1:24000 moving topo map right on your wrist watch. For free.

 

[Paradox]

If you have the copter you could undercut the state and make the money.

Well no, I can't fly a helicopter, but I did sleep at a Holiday Inn Select last night.

 

[Craig]

Those that develop or invest in technologies that exploit these new capabilities will be liv'n large.

Imagine the possibilities.....

 

[Maddy]

I still would rather take my Garmin into the woods or even when driving up in the far northern realms or in Maine or anywhere there isn't cell data service to download the map and routing information.

Agreed!
"....or anywhere there isn't cell data service to download the map and routing information."
I would not want to depend on something that was this unreliable out in the woods.


The Delorme SPOT/GPS sounds interesting.

 

[Lawn Sale]

And in another 20 you'll have a 1:24000 moving topo map right on your wrist watch. For free.

I wonder what the resolution on my Garmin 205 is. I upload tracks to it for bike ride and can follow them on the GPS, it doesn't seem that far fetched to have them support map uploads.

The problem I have with all GPS apps on the iPhone is the battery life, which is not replaceable by the average Joe. I've found I get a max of 4 hours out of my battery, and that's with it running in economy mode (screen off, airport on). Cute, but not practical for longer hikes. I have the above mentioned 205, which is nice, but it does not support maps and the battery is also internal. It lasts 6-7 hours and I can upload and download tracks and waypoints, but otherwise it's a data generator. I can get 10 hours of use out of a pair of AA batteries on my Garmin Legend, so that is what I take on longer trips, along with spare batteries. I also uploaded the topo maps to it, which list all the trails.

 

[Chip]

And in another 20 you'll have a 1:24000 moving topo map right on your wrist watch. For free.

I another 20 years there will be fully interactive, full immersion, 3D pod reality simulators that will allow the user to dial up whatever weather, temperature and risk level they'd like to experience for any mountain, valley or ocean in the mapped universe. Just hit the "End" button when you want out. Imagine summiting Everest in shorts with plenty of oxygen !

GPS will be as the sextant for those forsaken hermits and radicals that still wander in the actuality. Although Actuality will probably be Verbotten. The lawsuits will be prohibitively expensive.

 

[jniehof]

Where it probably hurts them the most is the car units, as now anyone with an appropriate phone or iDevice has a suitable GPS for driving directions, one with a really nice screen and always-up-to-date maps.

Garmin made a really dumb move there. I have a friend with a Nuvi. It's over a year old now, which means it routinely complains about out-of-date maps. The map update costs something like $100-$150...a new unit costs something like $100-$150. Sheer arrogance.

 

[Little Rickie]

I another 20 years there will be fully interactive, full immersion, 3D pod reality simulators that will allow the user to dial up whatever weather, temperature and risk level they'd like to experience for any mountain, valley or ocean in the mapped universe. Just hit the "End" button when you want out. Imagine summiting Everest in shorts with plenty of oxygen ! .

Are you a Star Trek fan?

OK everyone lets meet at the holodeck and get some ice climbing in.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holodeck

 

[sardog1]

And in another 20 you'll have a 1:24000 moving topo map right on your wrist watch. For free.

I take no small pleasure in telling Neil that he was off by maybe 17 years:
Apple's planned iWatch could be more profitable than TV

 

[hikerbrian]

And for those reading this old thread for the first time, it may be useful to point out that most (though not all) newish smart phones are equipped with a GPS chip, which means cell reception is NOT required for the unit to function as a GPS.

 

[Peakbagr]

"I still would rather take my Garmin into the woods or even when driving up in the far northern realms or in Maine or anywhere there isn't cell data service to download the map and routing information."

When driving the back roads looking for the place you planned to park for a 'whack to an unnamed summit, nothing beats my 60CSx. Use it that way all the time.

 

[DougPaul]

And for those reading this old thread for the first time, it may be useful to point out that most (though not all) newish smart phones are equipped with a GPS chip, which means cell reception is NOT required for the unit to function as a GPS.

(The following is based upon the technical requirements--I don't know what the manufacturers advertise .)

I disagree.

Pragmatically, a GPS chip is required to receive any GPS signals. Its raw output (times of arrival of the satellite signals and their Doppler shifts) can be sent back over the cellphone system to be converted into a location or the equations can be solved locally in the phone.

The phone connection can serve two other purposes:
1) Initial information for assisted GPS (AGPS). AGPS is one method of shrinking the time to first fix (TTFF). Otherwise, the GPS has to search for the signals and wait for satellite orbital information to be received. (Takes about a minute, longer if the reception is poor.) Some phones may be unable to search and will therefore require a cell signal for GPS. (IMO, a better design would use AGPS if it is available and search if it is not available.)
2) Downloading maps.

Doug

 

[hikerbrian]

"I still would rather take my Garmin into the woods or even when driving up in the far northern realms or in Maine or anywhere there isn't cell data service to download the map and routing information."

Aside from the rather obvious point about being prepared with an appropriate map before you embark on an adventure (i.e. downloading the appropriate map to your smartphone before going into the woods), why would you rather take your Garmin? I'm genuinely curious, as I fully plan to NOT buy a standalone GPS since I have a GPS-enabled smartphone. A couple of caveats: I'm REALLY good with map and compass, and as a general rule I don't much care what my EXACT route/pace/elevation gain/etc. was on any given hike/'shwhack. That csx is a lot of coin to plunk down for...what? Assuming one already has a gps-enabled smartphone.

 

[hikerbrian]

Doug, any chance you could put that in layman's terms? I'm struggling to see where you disagree with my statement, but I confess, having reread your post several times now...I don't get it.

 

[Peakbagr]

Brian, having a map and compass in your pack and knowing how to use them is an obvious conclusion for most of the readers here on VFTT. Less obvious for those wandering through the mountains without 'analog' tools or the skill to use them.
We'll continue to see more calls for rangers to rescue hikers who relied on a smartphone that died in the woods.

I've been downloading my tracks and saving them with trip photos for years. Matching up the two makes for interesting reading, research, and going back to see something I missed or want to see again. Pretty useful for the hiking guide I wrote and the new one I'm working on.
With 16 or 18 hours of battery life, I can still slap in replacement pair of AAs in my GPS. As fot the cost, my 60CSx has had so much use and abuse, the buttons are worn white. You're certainly not alone as a smartphone user with expertise with map and compass navigation, but there are a lot of hikers who are not.

 

[hikerbrian]

Peakbagr, got it, that makes perfect sense, thanks.

 

[DougPaul]

Doug, any chance you could put that in layman's terms? I'm struggling to see where you disagree with my statement, but I confess, having reread your post several times now...I don't get it.

The GPS signals require special processing which, pragmatically speaking, requires a GPS chip. Thus all GPS-enabled phones have a GPS chip.

If a cellphone can (1) search for and find the satellite signals on its own and (2) solve the equations to convert the raw GPS info into a location internally, it does not require cellphone signals. If (1) comes from a cell connection, it is called AGPS. I have read that some phones require help (from a server accessed through the cellphone system) to solve the equations (2).

Some phones may require a cellphone connection to download maps. (Some may be able to pre-load the maps to avoid this.)

I hope you find this version a bit easier to understand.

Doug

 

[hikerbrian]

I think you're still agreeing with me.

Here's what I'm saying:
1. Newish smartphones (iPhone 3 and beyond, for example) all have dedicated GPS chips (and the requisite onboard software to deconvolute the signals), which means they do NOT require cell signal to function as a GPS
2. You DO need a cell or wifi signal to download internet content, such as maps. One would be wise to do this prior to heading into the woods.

In addition to a dedicated GPS chip, the iPhone 5 and maybe some others are also equipped with A-GPS, which makes initial satellite signal acquisition faster, as you suggest - the phone can use the cellular network to download satellite locations. To be clear, A-GPS uses the cellular network and requires a cellular signal. However, the iPhone 3 and beyond only use A-GPS to make signal acquisition faster (and probably more accurate). The phones will function with their dedicated GPS chips in the absence of a cellular signal.

Finally, for a variety reasons, a smartphone is unlikely to provide the same accuracy and features that a dedicated unit will - the Garmin CSX weighs more and is larger than the iPhone 5, yet the Garmin doesn't have a camera, speakers, the ability to play music, etc. etc. All those guts are dedicated to doing the job of a GPS really, really well.

Are we on the same page?

 

[DougPaul]

Are we on the same page?

Mostly.

However I still dispute your statement that any cellphone that has a GPS chip can operate independently of the cellphone network. All GPS enabled cellphones contain a GPS chip, but not all cellphone GPSes can operate independently of the cellphone network.


BTW, I have compared a Garmin 60CSx track with an iPhone track--the 60CSx was more accurate. FWIW, we were under cellphone coverage for much of the hike--I don't know if this was a factor. (Not sure which iPhone--it might have been a 4.)

Doug